I thought the new bronco was gonna look like this

JimmyDean

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Well, there is still the possibility of a hybrid mustang on the existing S550 platform. doubtful it will be AWD but possible.

the S650 it is expected may well have a full electric variant. hybrid is almost guaranteed at this point, possibly though a still fully ICE variant.

and also with the power numbers being poured out these days, an AWD is very likely on the S650. Things have passed the point of being able to get all of that power to the ground in a RWD with even some factory backed engine upgrades like the Roush supercharger.
not much to be sad about there man. a V8 hybrid pushing 6-700 HP from the factory, and AWD so you can actually use that power? Hell yeah man! We currently have 4 cylinder mustangs that can run circles around cars like mine (71 Mach 1), and we're talking cars so powerful that even with all of the tech available today you'll roast a set of tires in minutes. It is a good time to be a gearhead. And they aren't nearly as bad to work on as I once thought either, albeit there isn't the room in the engine bay like there was on the classics...
 

Jake_zx2

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Wait, that's not just something with a Mustang name, that's actually replacing it?!
no, it is not replacing it. It will be paired with it, similar to the BroncoBronco and BabyBronco. There is still supposed to be a 7th gen Mustang, the S650 in a few years, original thoughts were 2021, but looking more like 2023 or 2024 now. Expect a facelift for 2021 though.
S650 was reported to be cancelled around the same time that Ford (Hackett) decided that the Mach E would be called "Mustang". For the forseeable future, all that's happening is updates on S550 with no plans for a next gen Mustang coupe

Ford is definitely trying to phase out the traditional Mustang. They're saying that it's "joining the Mustang family" so that people don't lose their shit. It's really a smart ploy against enthusiasts... tell them "there's nothing to worry about", cancel next gen Mustang behind closed doors, let the Mustang go stagnant and lose sales while the high profit multi-use crossover platform sells like hotcakes, then tell the enthusiasts it's their fault that Mustang is being cancelled because they didn't buy enough of them. This has been happening for years... look at the manual transmission. it started out as being stocked lightly on dealer lots, then only being offered in base trims, then slowly started disappearing from models, to the point where now there are barely any new manuals being made and the manufacturers get to blame us for "not buying enough" even though they didn't exactly make them easy to buy

It's all manufacturer politics, and if you don't see it when it begins, it'll be too late to stop it when it rears its ugly head. Fuck the Mach E
 

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S650 was reported to be cancelled around the same time that Ford (Hackett) decided that the Mach E would be called "Mustang". For the forseeable future, all that's happening is updates on S550 with no plans for a next gen Mustang coupe

Ford is definitely trying to phase out the traditional Mustang. They're saying that it's "joining the Mustang family" so that people don't lose their shit. It's really a smart ploy against enthusiasts... tell them "there's nothing to worry about", cancel next gen Mustang behind closed doors, let the Mustang go stagnant and lose sales while the high profit multi-use crossover platform sells like hotcakes, then tell the enthusiasts it's their fault that Mustang is being cancelled because they didn't buy enough of them. This has been happening for years... look at the manual transmission. it started out as being stocked lightly on dealer lots, then only being offered in base trims, then slowly started disappearing from models, to the point where now there are barely any new manuals being made and the manufacturers get to blame us for "not buying enough" even though they didn't exactly make them easy to buy

It's all manufacturer politics, and if you don't see it when it begins, it'll be too late to stop it when it rears its ugly head. Fuck the Mach E
Any proof, nope ok then. Well none of that was true, after all Ford is car company that makes cars, the mustang is there Halo car it's what brings people to the brand they are not going just stop producing the real mustang for the E, it's like if Chevy stop making the Corvette, it won't happen anytime in the near future. The E is just compete against Tesla at there own game they used the mustang name to make it gain traction better than every other car maker currently trying to make a EV that competes against Tesla like Audi and even Jaguar hell even Chevy couldn't make a dent in Tesla sells, but guess what already is the Mach E, if you actually believe that they would discontinued the real mustang then you must also believe that the broncobronco is just going to be another cuv/SUV with no real performance and no heritage what so ever
 

Sherminiator

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S650 was reported to be cancelled around the same time that Ford (Hackett) decided that the Mach E would be called "Mustang". For the forseeable future, all that's happening is updates on S550 with no plans for a next gen Mustang coupe

Ford is definitely trying to phase out the traditional Mustang. They're saying that it's "joining the Mustang family" so that people don't lose their shit. It's really a smart ploy against enthusiasts... tell them "there's nothing to worry about", cancel next gen Mustang behind closed doors, let the Mustang go stagnant and lose sales while the high profit multi-use crossover platform sells like hotcakes, then tell the enthusiasts it's their fault that Mustang is being cancelled because they didn't buy enough of them. This has been happening for years... look at the manual transmission. it started out as being stocked lightly on dealer lots, then only being offered in base trims, then slowly started disappearing from models, to the point where now there are barely any new manuals being made and the manufacturers get to blame us for "not buying enough" even though they didn't exactly make them easy to buy

It's all manufacturer politics, and if you don't see it when it begins, it'll be too late to stop it when it rears its ugly head. Fuck the Mach E
So with that mindset, you'd rather see the Mustang die off completely? The Coupe market is shrinking...Yes, the Mustang is best selling "sports car" in the world. but having only 120K or so units a year or less being sold isn't going to support a separate platform like its been on since 2005.

Ford isn't going to be stupid and kill the Mustang off-its their best known nameplate they have.

As for the Mustang Mach E...the Mustang name won't be even used by the owners...all its doing is increasing the visibility of the upcoming product vs making it some sort of boring compliance vehicle. The Performance will be there (even stupid cars like the BMW i3 move pretty damn well for what it is) to back up the Mustang name. Plus a CUV opens up doors for people who want a more practical car then a 2 door Mustang.

The name thing bugged me at first, but I'm a believer now-I've owned 2 Mustangs and I plan on another after I get my Bronco paid off as a 3rd car. The wife might get a Mustang Mach E because of all the driving she does locally-and she'd save a couple hundred bucks a month in gas.
 

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So with that mindset, you'd rather see the Mustang die off completely? The Coupe market is shrinking...Yes, the Mustang is best selling "sports car" in the world. but having only 120K or so units a year or less being sold isn't going to support a separate platform like its been on since 2005.

Ford isn't going to be stupid and kill the Mustang off-its their best known nameplate they have.

As for the Mustang Mach E...the Mustang name won't be even used by the owners...all its doing is increasing the visibility of the upcoming product vs making it some sort of boring compliance vehicle. The Performance will be there (even stupid cars like the BMW i3 move pretty damn well for what it is) to back up the Mustang name. Plus a CUV opens up doors for people who want a more practical car then a 2 door Mustang.

The name thing bugged me at first, but I'm a believer now-I've owned 2 Mustangs and I plan on another after I get my Bronco paid off as a 3rd car. The wife might get a Mustang Mach E because of all the driving she does locally-and she'd save a couple hundred bucks a month in gas.
This.

I hated it at first too, being a stang owner. But Marketing wise it made sense for Ford to do that and theirs little trick worked. I hope it’s extremely successful because I think it will actually keep the mustang brand going not kill it off
 

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Any proof, nope ok then. Well none of that was true, after all Ford is car company that makes cars
You are aware that they are going to stop selling cars in north america apart from the mustang, right? CUV/SUV/Truck only going forward. It would make sense for them to have plans to convert the mustang name into something different a la Mach E. Not saying it's a good thing, but it makes sense.
 

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You are aware that they are going to stop selling cars in north america apart from the mustang, right? CUV/SUV/Truck only going forward. It would make sense for them to have plans to convert the mustang name into something different a la Mach E. Not saying it's a good thing, but it makes sense.
Last time I checked, CUV's where making up something like 60-70% of the total passenger market (outside of trucks) and most other car makers where doing the same thing. There is a CUV tax built into them, Look at the pricing of EcoSport and Escape for example-they are far higher then Focus and Fusion base prices, even though both the Ecosport and Escape are technically a B and C class product vs a C and CD based Focus/Fusion. So automakers are going to make money and make what the market wants to buy and spend money on.

The other thing is that those same CUVs are based off car platforms, so if Iran became a sheet of glass and gas went stupid high, it wouldn't be too hard to switch back to that whole 1-2 MPG increase a sedan gets over a CUV....
 

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The customer is always right.

That saying evolved not from the idea that you can abuse the waitress, but from the idea that you build what will sell.
You can make 2" bolts until the shelves are overflowing , BUT, if the customer needs 2.25" bolts , the 2.25" is what will sell.
That is what killed the manual trans.... you may like to row your own, but that puts you in the less than 10% market share (for Super Duty anyways).
That's how few manuals were being ordered and that's why they killed it. Not some conspiracy to rob the public of sports cars and manual trannys.
 

Jake_zx2

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So with that mindset, you'd rather see the Mustang die off completely?
100% yes, absolutely. I'd much rather the Mustang die a legend than see its name be diluted and bastardized into something its never been solely for the sake of profits

Ford isn't going to be stupid and kill the Mustang off-its their best known nameplate they have.
Am I the only one here that remembers that the Ford Probe was supposed to be the new Mustang? This is the same exact situation happening again. Hell, same exact thing happened with the Escort and Focus... Escort was a well known and liked platform, so when the Focus came out, Ford pitched it as an addition to their compact segment. Then 3 years later, the escort was killed off. This isn't the first time Ford has done this, nor is it the first time people have been naïve enough to fall for it... just the stakes are higher this time

As for the Mustang Mach E...the Mustang name won't be even used by the owners...all its doing is increasing the visibility of the upcoming product vs making it some sort of boring compliance vehicle.
Mmmm, no. People have already been joining Mustang forums and facebook pages in anticipation of the release

The Performance will be there (even stupid cars like the BMW i3 move pretty damn well for what it is) to back up the Mustang name.
The Mustang name isn't just about performance... if that were the case, the ST line, RS line, raptors, SHOs, FGT, etc. would all be called "Mustang". But they aren't, because "Mustang" isn't JUST about performance like Hackett wants you to believe

Plus a CUV opens up doors for people who want a more practical car then a 2 door Mustang.
If people want practical, they shouldn't be getting a damn Mustang

You are aware that they are going to stop selling cars in north america apart from the mustang, right? CUV/SUV/Truck only going forward. It would make sense for them to have plans to convert the mustang name into something different a la Mach E. Not saying it's a good thing, but it makes sense.
Eeeeeeeexactly. The plan makes sense, and the timeline works... S650 kept getting delayed further and further and further until last year when about 1500 engineers were laid off and plans for S650 were scrapped. its not a coincidence
 

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That's how few manuals were being ordered and that's why they killed it. Not some conspiracy to rob the public of sports cars and manual trannys.
What you're missing is the point that they HAVE to be ordered in the first place... This all stems from a manufacturer's desire to downsize and reduce options in order to maximize profits. Why spend money developing 2 transmissions when you can force them out of the buyer's hands and make them feel like THEY made the decision, thus only needing to ever make 1 transmission yet not lose any sales to angry customers? That's exactly how the auto industry has been operating the last 20 years or so. Cars are no longer a leisure item, they're a necessity. Manufacturers can, in a sense, hold their customers hostage. The old adage doesn't quite apply here... People may want 2.25" bolts, but if there's not a 2.25" bolt on the market or getting one is a far greater hassle, the customer is going to settle with the 2" bolt
 

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The customer is always right.

That saying evolved not from the idea that you can abuse the waitress, but from the idea that you build what will sell.
You can make 2" bolts until the shelves are overflowing , BUT, if the customer needs 2.25" bolts , the 2.25" is what will sell.
That is what killed the manual trans.... you may like to row your own, but that puts you in the less than 10% market share (for Super Duty anyways).
That's how few manuals were being ordered and that's why they killed it. Not some conspiracy to rob the public of sports cars and manual trannys.
Yep, this is unfortunately the case. Especially now that even torque converter autos have better performance than a manual, to say nothing of DCTs. Manual transmissions being offered are a bone being thrown to enthusiasts.

The C7 corvette had one of the highest manual take-rates in the industry, but even that dwindled from 50% in 2014 to 20% at the end. That's one of the factors that lead to there being no manual option in the C8 - it wasn't worth it for the design tradeoff to make room for the linkages going to the back when not that many buyers would be taking it versus the new DCT.
 

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100% yes, absolutely. I'd much rather the Mustang die a legend than see its name be diluted and bastardized into something its never been solely for the sake of profits

Am I the only one here that remembers that the Ford Probe was supposed to be the new Mustang? This is the same exact situation happening again. Hell, same exact thing happened with the Escort and Focus... Escort was a well known and liked platform, so when the Focus came out, Ford pitched it as an addition to their compact segment. Then 3 years later, the escort was killed off. This isn't the first time Ford has done this, nor is it the first time people have been naïve enough to fall for it... just the stakes are higher this time
You have to be kidding me-you don't remember the Mustang II? Is that a Mustang? It was built off a Pinto platform for crying out loud and not much in the way of performance creed either.

As for the Focus vs Escort-
Lots of different things going on here-
The OG Escort was slotted as a compact/subcompact car when it came out, the Fiesta was slotted under it for a period of time and then the Festiva
The Tempo was above it as a compact car
The Taurus was originally slated to be a replacement for the Crown Vic, but instead was considered a mid/full sized car instead.

Fast forward to the late 1990s-
The market changed-the mid-sized car market is now the best selling segment-The Taurus is bigger then the Accord and Camry-the two best selling products on the market.

The Contour was slotted as the Tempo replacement, but was too small for the NA market to compete in the CD (Accord/Camry) segment and died off.

Ford more or less forgot about the sedan market because the Explorer and other SUVs where making shit ton of profits...till it wasn't and 9/11 and gas spikes damaged the SUV market (not as much of a worry these days since CUV's get more or less identical gas mileage as sedans)

Ford starting worrying about the sedan market place and went oh shit how can we fix this, they did this way:

Focus comes out in 1999.The Escort (aka Mazada 323) soldiers on for a few more years as the entry level product-I believe only the ZX2 was the only product for a few years after the Focus. The Focus moves into the C Slot, which was occupied by the Contour previously. The Fusion comes out in 2005, giving Ford a product that is nearly identical to what the Accord and Camry are size wise, so its the CD product. The Ford 500 aka Taurus comes out as full sized product in 2002, based on a Volvo platform. The reset their sedan lineup in the mid 2000s to compete better with what the market was actually selling.

So to make a long story short-the Escort was retired because it was long in tooth and sold because it was just cheap, but didn't make $$$ for Ford.

Eeeeeeeexactly. The plan makes sense, and the timeline works... S650 kept getting delayed further and further and further until last year when about 1500 engineers were laid off and plans for S650 were scrapped. its not a coincidence
There is a next gen Mustang coming in 2022 or so-its in the UAW contract. However...the CD6 platform (which is the Current Explorer/Aviator platform) was supposed to spawn a sedans/coupes also, but that was killed off because of market demands.

So what is happening is the current S550 will have a deep refresh using bits of the CD6 platform (it uses harnesses etc from the CD4 now) to keep it going for another 10 years or so.

Ford is moving away from identifying platform types and just calling them families now or something like that-I need to dig up the graphic.
 

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What you're missing is the point that they HAVE to be ordered in the first place... This all stems from a manufacturer's desire to downsize and reduce options in order to maximize profits. Why spend money developing 2 transmissions when you can force them out of the buyer's hands and make them feel like THEY made the decision, thus only needing to ever make 1 transmission yet not lose any sales to angry customers? That's exactly how the auto industry has been operating the last 20 years or so. Cars are no longer a leisure item, they're a necessity.
Sigh...you still can't wrap your head around the fact that you can't force products that your buyers don't want to buy and make money on them.

There are SEVERAL examples of this happening...G8/GTO and so on

The average car buyer looks at a car as an appliance (Witness all those Accord/Camry sales over the past 30 years or so-nothing exciting about them)

BEVs have outsold manual equipped cars for the first time this past year...there is no demand for a stick shift...I drove nothing but stick shifts since my 1986 Escort GT until I got my 2013 Taurus SHO. Do I miss it? Not Really, but I think the day I get another Mustang, I'd like a manual, but if I can't, it won't bother me.

Your just a car buying minority more or less just shouting at the sun right now.
 

Jake_zx2

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You have to be kidding me-you don't remember the Mustang II? Is that a Mustang? It was built off a Pinto platform for crying out loud and not much in the way of performance creed either.
Which goes to show that "Mustang" hasn't been about performance. Mustang has always been a European-influenced grand tourer, as it should be

As for the Focus vs Escort-
Lots of different things going on here-
The OG Escort was slotted as a compact/subcompact car when it came out, the Fiesta was slotted under it for a period of time and then the Festiva
The Tempo was above it as a compact car
The Taurus was originally slated to be a replacement for the Crown Vic, but instead was considered a mid/full sized car instead.

Fast forward to the late 1990s-
The market changed-the mid-sized car market is now the best selling segment-The Taurus is bigger then the Accord and Camry-the two best selling products on the market.

The Contour was slotted as the Tempo replacement, but was too small for the NA market to compete in the CD (Accord/Camry) segment and died off.

Ford more or less forgot about the sedan market because the Explorer and other SUVs where making shit ton of profits...till it wasn't and 9/11 and gas spikes damaged the SUV market (not as much of a worry these days since CUV's get more or less identical gas mileage as sedans)

Ford starting worrying about the sedan market place and went oh shit how can we fix this, they did this way:

Focus comes out in 1999.The Escort (aka Mazada 323) soldiers on for a few more years as the entry level product-I believe only the ZX2 was the only product for a few years after the Focus. The Focus moves into the C Slot, which was occupied by the Contour previously. The Fusion comes out in 2005, giving Ford a product that is nearly identical to what the Accord and Camry are size wise, so its the CD product. The Ford 500 aka Taurus comes out as full sized product in 2002, based on a Volvo platform. The reset their sedan lineup in the mid 2000s to compete better with what the market was actually selling.

So to make a long story short-the Escort was retired because it was long in tooth and sold because it was just cheap, but didn't make $$$ for Ford.
Can't you see that this is exactly what is happening now? Less people are buying sports cars, more people are buying crossovers and EVs. There isn't really a place for the Mustang anymore aside from the enthusiasts, which they've been showing for years now they don't really care about

There is a next gen Mustang coming in 2022 or so-its in the UAW contract. However...the CD6 platform (which is the Current Explorer/Aviator platform) was supposed to spawn a sedans/coupes also, but that was killed off because of market demands.

So what is happening is the current S550 will have a deep refresh using bits of the CD6 platform (it uses harnesses etc from the CD4 now) to keep it going for another 10 years or so.

Ford is moving away from identifying platform types and just calling them families now or something like that-I need to dig up the graphic.
The next-gen coming in 2022 is going to be a refresh on S550, nothing drastic. It'll still be a 6g Mustang (and likely will be for the forseeable future). Plans for the clean slate next gen were axed shortly after Hackett took the helm
 








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