If you are trying to get a raptor,

[1st 75th ranger]

The dealer here in Chattanooga has 5 on the lot....

try all american ford paramus nj ask for curtis they have plenty also
i got my 2021 bd 4dr 2.7 area i51 sas from him

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[raptorusmaximus]

I ordered back on march 8 22' when the original order banks opened. Paid 83k fully loaded including adm... totally worth it. I keep my tunned 12' raptor with the 6.2 boss around when I need to haul something big or want to hear a real V8 roar .....

 

[ramblinwreck]

Agree completely.

I agree too. Let's be honest, with the cheap interior materials, questionable interior designs, lack of insulation, etc, these vehicles are really a $35-$40k vehicle, with a market adjustment on top for demand. The higher trim packages are lipstick on a pig, and honestly I think the top standard trim packages are ridiculously overpriced at around $60k now. The Raptor is basically the same truck, with a little extra lipstick, and is grossly overpriced for what you are actually getting now.

Imho, once demand stabilizes, you will see Raptor's selling closer to the $70k mark, at most, and Badlands/Wildtracks in that $50-$60k range.

 

[swamp2]

Manufactures should avoid having that next douchebag vehicle that people make fun of for buying like the Hummer H2 became. Much lower pricing on Braptor would help bring in new buyers that would help keep it relevant.

Agree completely.

Hmmm. With the performance, prowess, favorable media and heritage of the Bronco Raptor, I'd say there is no chance that it becomes a derided douchebag vehicle.

You surely get that's it's purposefully limited in production quantities, regardless of the changing market? I guess you also realize Ford's job is to maximize profit, not make FP vehicles priced for everyone?

 

[swamp2]

I agree too. Let's be honest, with the cheap interior materials, questionable interior designs, lack of insulation, etc, these vehicles are really a $35-$40k vehicle, with a market adjustment on top for demand. The higher trim packages are lipstick on a pig, and honestly I think the top standard trim packages are ridiculously overpriced at around $60k now. The Raptor is basically the same truck, with a little extra lipstick, and is grossly overpriced for what you are actually getting now.

Imho, once demand stabilizes, you will see Raptor's selling closer to the $70k mark, at most, and Badlands/Wildtracks in that $50-$60k range.

Wow, you're not even wrong. Just more Raptor hate. The Raptor has a different or improved:

Frame, Suspension (all of it - from knuckles to bump stops), Engine, Axles, Steering, Steering Wheel, Body, Body Mounts, Tire Carrier, Brakes, Shocks, GOAT Modes, Infotainment Screen, Seats, Exhaust, Wheels, Tires, Ground Clearance, Water Fording Depth.

That just ain't lipstick.

Go price all of that out compared to any non-Raptor. Oh wait, some of those are basically impossible to add on...

Raptors will never again sell new for $70k. I'd place a huge wager on that.

 

[ramblinwreck]

Wow, you're not even wrong. Just more Raptor hate. The Raptor has a different or improved:

Frame, Suspension (all of it - from knuckles to bump stops), Engine, Axles, Steering, Steering Wheel, Body, Body Mounts, Tire Carrier, Brakes, Shocks, GOAT Modes, Infotainment Screen, Seats, Exhaust, Wheels, Tires, Ground Clearance, Water Fording Depth.

That just ain't lipstick.

Go price all of that out compared to any non-Raptor. Oh wait, some of those are basically impossible to add on...

Raptors will never again sell new for $70k. I'd place a huge wager on that.

Those things you listed, most of which do not drive the cost to manufacture up at all, are indeed lipstick on a pig. Like it or not, a Raptor is a $40k truck, with some mechanical upgrades and some color added to the interior that they are selling for $100k. There are MUCH better vehicles you can buy for that cost.

And it isn't Raptor hate, its just the truth. My wildtrack is MSRP around $65k now, but it has the same basic mechanics and cheap interior design and components as a sub $50k Bronco. It is the same problem as the Raptor, just much less pronounced. Broncos are designed for the lowest price package, which governs the build quality and materials. In this respect, we all drive around with trucks design for the $40k range. Most people expect a $100k car if they are in fact paying $100k for it.

 

[swamp2]

Those things you listed, most of which do not drive the cost to manufacture up at all, are indeed lipstick on a pig.

Factually incorrect , period. It's actually hard to believe anyone would make this absurd claim.

There are MUCH better vehicles you can buy for that cost.

Better at what, having a fancy interior? Name a factory vehicle that can out crawl or out high speed off road the Bronco Raptor. The only thing even close is the not really factory, heavily modified Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392 AEV thing and that is the same price and may win at crawling, but certainly not at high speed.

 

[PrepVet]

Those things you listed, most of which do not drive the cost to manufacture up at all, are indeed lipstick on a pig. Like it or not, a Raptor is a $40k truck, with some mechanical upgrades and some color added to the interior that they are selling for $100k. There are MUCH better vehicles you can buy for that cost.

And it isn't Raptor hate, its just the truth. My wildtrack is MSRP around $65k now, but it has the same basic mechanics and cheap interior design and components as a sub $50k Bronco. It is the same problem as the Raptor, just much less pronounced. Broncos are designed for the lowest price package, which governs the build quality and materials. In this respect, we all drive around with trucks design for the $40k range. Most people expect a $100k car if they are in fact paying $100k for it.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but where are you getting the $40g figure from? And do you mean that as cost? Value? Worth?

 

[ramblinwreck]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but where are you getting the $40g figure from? And do you mean that as cost? Value? Worth?

According to the Ford Website:
Bronco®
Starting at $39,130

 

[voxel]

Those things you listed, most of which do not drive the cost to manufacture up at all, are indeed lipstick on a pig. Like it or not, a Raptor is a $40k truck, with some mechanical upgrades and some color added to the interior that they are selling for $100k. There are MUCH better vehicles you can buy for that cost.

And it isn't Raptor hate, its just the truth. My wildtrack is MSRP around $65k now, but it has the same basic mechanics and cheap interior design and components as a sub $50k Bronco. It is the same problem as the Raptor, just much less pronounced. Broncos are designed for the lowest price package, which governs the build quality and materials. In this respect, we all drive around with trucks design for the $40k range. Most people expect a $100k car if they are in fact paying $100k for it.

I agree and have the same opinion of the new Sequoia TRD Pro ($83K) which is lipstick on a sub-$55K SUV and the $75K Grand Cherokees Summit Reserves which are fancy decorations on a $50K SUV. Don't get wrong, the GC SR interiors are extremely nice but no Jeep with a Penastar engine is worth $80K-ish. Even at $50K... Jeeps are overpriced compared to the Asian competitors and sorely lacking in features and refinement.

I like my $53K Heritage. It's fantastic but it's not a great value compared for those looking for a family SUV or a daily driver. For the same price, you can purchase a loaded Grand Highlander or Telluride or Pilot.

If you don't need a removable top, the new Land Cruiser will fit most current Wrangler/Bronco owner's needs. Ford better look at cutting production or throwing out incentives soon.

 

[ramblinwreck]

Factually incorrect , period. It's actually garc to believe anyone would make this absurd claim.



Better at what, having a fancy interior? Name a factory vehicle that can out crawl or out high speed off road the Bronco Raptor. The only thing even close is the not really factory, heavily modified Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392 AEV thing and that is the same price and may win at crawling, but certainly not at high speed.

Frame - Stiffened frame from standard Bronco, negligible cost increase
Suspension (all of it - from knuckles to bump stops) - negligible cost increase
Engine - Negligible cost increase.
Axles - These are quite a bit beefier than standard, probably $1k-$2k cost increase for Ford
Steering, Steering Wheel - Negligible cost increase
Body - No cost increase, different does not mean better or more expensive to produce/
Body Mounts - really?
Tire Carrier - So a $500 carrier
Brakes - Neglibible cost increase
Shocks - Negligible cost increase
GOAT Modes - No cost increase
Infotainment Screen - No cost increase
Seats - No cost increase
Exhaust - Negligible
Wheels - No cost increase
Tires - 35s to 37s? What, $100 a tire so $500?
Ground Clearance, Water Fording Depth - No cost increase

I am sorry if I struck a nerve with saying the Raptor is a grossly overpriced $40k truck, but almost none of the things you listed cost dramatically different than a Base-squatch to produce. Slightly different parts do not equate to crazy higher costs to product.

And you might be right, Raptor's might never see $70k again, but I bet they do. They aren't even close to worth $100k for the vast majority of buyers, as evidenced by the fact they are sitting on lots unsold at MSRP right now. I think in the long run, they will slot in at slightly higher than a Ranger raptor, but a lot cheaper than an F150 Raptor, just like the rest of the trims are in those lineups.

For reference, F150 Raptor starts at $76k and Ranger Raptor starts at $55k. I bet without the hype train that Bronco rode for a few years, Brapto slots in at MSRP below $70k starting.

 

[ramblinwreck]

I agree and have the same opinion of the new Sequoia TRD Pro ($83K) which is lipstick on a sub-$55K SUV and the $75K Grand Cherokees Summit Reserves which are fancy decorations on a $50K SUV. Don't get wrong, the GC SR interiors are extremely nice but no Jeep with a Penastar engine is worth $80K-ish. Even at $50K... Jeeps are overpriced compared to the Asian competitors and sorely lacking in features and refinement.

I like my $53K Heritage. It's fantastic but it's not a great value compared for those looking for a family SUV or a daily driver. For the same price, you can purchase a loaded Grand Highlander or Telluride or Pilot.

If you don't need a removable top, the new Land Cruiser will fit most current Wrangler/Bronco owner's needs. Ford better look at cutting production or throwing out incentives soon.

Yeah, thats sort of my point. I like my Wildtrack. I paid around $55k for due to price protection and dealer selling at invoice. I feel like even at $55k it was a really poor value. I think comparable models in 2024 MSRP closer to $65k, which I think is grossly overpriced as well.

 

[Finbox]

“Frame - Stiffened frame from standard Bronco, negligible cost increase
Suspension (all of it - from knuckles to bump stops) - negligible cost increase
Engine - Negligible cost increase.
Axles - These are quite a bit beefier than standard, probably $1k-$2k cost increase for Ford
Steering, Steering Wheel - Negligible cost increase
Body - No cost increase, different does not mean better or more expensive to produce/
Body Mounts - really?
Tire Carrier - So a $500 carrier
Brakes - Neglibible cost increase
Shocks - Negligible cost increase
GOAT Modes - No cost increase
Infotainment Screen - No cost increase
Seats - No cost increase
Exhaust - Negligible
Wheels - No cost increase
Tires - 35s to 37s? What, $100 a tire so $500?
Ground Clearance, Water Fording Depth - No cost increase”

So completely redesigned suspension with 14” travel, Fox 3.1 live valve shocks, remote reservoirs, wheel position sensors, accelerometers, tilt sensors, and the software that goes along with it is “Negligible cost”….you have lost your mind.

This is what he thinks “negligible cost” looks like…..

 

[swamp2]

Having done Engineering and Manufacturing Engineering (costing) I vehemently disagree. Also, add up a plethora of negligibles and pretty soon you have thousands of dollars.

Use some common sense, really. The curb weight is about 800 lb more (Raptor vs. Wildtrack). Most of that is just steel and aluminum, do you think this is free? Are any materials free per lb? What an utter fantasy land that would be.

I suppose the F-150 Raptor also doesn't cost more than a base F-150 or the Z06 Vette doesn't cost more. You're placing your foot further and further down your throat here...

Frame - Stiffened frame from standard Bronco, negligible cost increase

Wrong, more weight, more steel, more raw material cost and significantly more labor cost.

Suspension (all of it - from knuckles to bump stops) - negligible cost increase

Wrong again, more weight and more cost. Also lower volume part are inherently MUCH higher cost (those not taken from the F-150).

Engine - Negligible cost increase.

Rubbish, larger and heavier everything from block to turbos to cooling,

Axles - These are quite a bit beefier than standard, probably $1k-$2k cost increase for Ford

Steering, Steering Wheel - Negligible cost increase

Getting boring, wrong... Larger and heavier castings and all internal and external components. Also larger motor. Quite a bit more material and labor in the steering wheel and its electronics.

Body - No cost increase, different does not mean better or more expensive to produce/

Wrong, see comments above on cost vs. volume. Also multiple major structural components to stiffen body. Mid-top brace and rear composite Raptor only cross brace. Fenders much higher cost - materials and volume.

Body Mounts - really?

Larger, siffer, stronger, more cost.

Tire Carrier - So a $500 carrier

Brakes - Neglibible cost increase

Larger rotors, pads and calipers, in part offset by F-150 volume levels, maybe a wash.

Shocks - Negligible cost increase

Not even wrong (again). You think Fox lets these 3.1s with active electronics go for the same cost, not happening. Springs even cost more too. Also 4 wheel travel sensors.

GOAT Modes - No cost increase

Negligible, but a definite cost to develop and test.

Infotainment Screen - No cost increase

Wrong, period.

Seats - No cost increase,

Wrong, period.

Exhaust - Negligible

Wrong, period, have you actually seen the Raptor exhaust?

Wheels - No cost increase

Wrong, wider, stronger, heavier.

Tires - 35s to 37s? What, $100 a tire so $500?

Ground Clearance, Water Fording Depth - No cost increase

Right, some of my list were features of difference not cost.

I am sorry if I struck a nerve with saying the Raptor is a grossly overpriced $40k truck, ...

Sorry the Raptor has given you base model insecurity.

 

[ramblinwreck]

Having done Engineering and Manufacturing Engineering (costing) I vehemently disagree. Also, add up a plethora of negligibles and pretty soon you have thousands of dollars.

Use some common sense, really. The curb weight is about 800 lb more (Raptor vs. Wildtrack). Most of that is just steel and aluminum, do you think this is free? Are any materials free per lb? What an utter fantasy land that would be.

I suppose the F-150 Raptor also doesn't cost more than a base F-150 or the Z06 Vette doesn't cost more. You're placing your foot further and further down your throat here...





Sorry the Raptor has given you base model insecurity.

I never said there was no increase in price. As a matter of fact I said it should slot in about $70k, which is about $30k more than a base and $5-$10k more than a badlands. Seems pretty reasonable to be considering the net increase in costs over a Sasquatch setup.

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