Mishimoto's Performance Intercooler R&D Thread

[21BRONCO]

@Mishimoto Please make an aftermarket BOV possible! Really want to slap on a HKS SQV4 on the bronco.

Will definitely be keeping on eye on this IC

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[VoltageDrop]

no need to do that. The motor is small so you remove it from the shutters and keep it plugged in. The ecu will think it is there and do its thing. No need to reprogram and complicate the process

Have you done this on another Ford platform? The reason I'm asking is because there are some soft DTC's that can be set by the PCM if the intake temperature is not as expected relative to the air charge temperature but I'm not sure how sensitive the system is to shutter position. It would be interesting to know if any of these guys with aftermarket bumpers void of cooling slots have any stored codes because a clogged intercooler (leaves, mud, etc.) is for sure one it's looking for. I'd rather not have codes in the system if my 2.7 goes kaput.

 

[Raptor911]

I have removed my IC in my GEN2 raptor and installed a bigger aftermarket intercooler. In order to make it fit I had to remove IC shutters. The shutter motor is tiny so I removed it from the shutters and plugged it back into the harness. Btw I left it unplugged for a few days to see if I saw any lights but saw no warning lights. I did get a warning on the ford pass app though.

Have you done this on another Ford platform? The reason I'm asking is because there are some soft DTC's that can be set by the PCM if the intake temperature is not as expected relative to the air charge temperature but I'm not sure how sensitive the system is to shutter position. It would be interesting to know if any of these guys with aftermarket bumpers void of cooling slots have any stored codes because a clogged intercooler (leaves, mud, etc.) is for sure one it's looking for. I'd rather not have codes in the system if my 2.7 goes kaput.

 

[Mishimoto]

Since you bumped it, maybe @Mishimoto can talk about whether they've had to work with Ford on programming to keep the computer happy with the grill shutter removal?

We haven't worked on any programming at the moment, and we do know that disconnecting the shutters do throw a CEL when they're removed. This code is something that's pretty common to tune out with a custom and off the shelf maps

I am curious as to why not use your liquid to air intercooler with heat exchanger to maximize cooler air temps and limit space requirements for mounting positions. Can you please explain why one should not purchase the universal L2A intercooler and heat exchanger to compliment performance engine mods?

This is a great question! A2W is definitely a great choice for these applications, and especially for the more serious off-roader and rock crawlers, but it's currently more effective to upgrade the current system.

Air-to-Water is something that's on our radar for sure, though, and we'd love to hear if anyone else also has an interest in an A2W system!

@Mishimoto Please make an aftermarket BOV possible! Really want to slap on a HKS SQV4 on the bronco.

Will definitely be keeping on eye on this IC

We'll likely be keeping the BOV/Recirculation mount similar to the OEM design, but it does look like there are already BOV adaptor plates out there for both engines

-Nick

 

[Defyfate11]

We haven't worked on any programming at the moment, and we do know that disconnecting the shutters do throw a CEL when they're removed. This code is something that's pretty common to tune out with a custom and off the shelf maps



This is a great question! A2W is definitely a great choice for these applications, and especially for the more serious off-roader and rock crawlers, but it's currently more effective to upgrade the current system.

Air-to-Water is something that's on our radar for sure, though, and we'd love to hear if anyone else also has an interest in an A2W system!



We'll likely be keeping the BOV/Recirculation mount similar to the OEM design, but it does look like there are already BOV adaptor plates out there for both engines

-Nick

After looking at the engine bay of my 2.7L, I can tell you that doing a top mount L2A intercooler setup will reduce the piping involved by about 50% which will reduce turbo lag. It also will clean up the engine bay a bit. I have looked at your universal L2A intercooler but I think that the BMW F8X appears to be a better fit (two 2" turbo inlets and one 3" outlet). With the Whipple Supercharger A2A intercooler being around $950 I do believe that an L2A intercooler can be priced around that price point.

 

[Draughon]

We haven't worked on any programming at the moment, and we do know that disconnecting the shutters do throw a CEL when they're removed. This code is something that's pretty common to tune out with a custom and off the shelf maps



This is a great question! A2W is definitely a great choice for these applications, and especially for the more serious off-roader and rock crawlers, but it's currently more effective to upgrade the current system.

Air-to-Water is something that's on our radar for sure, though, and we'd love to hear if anyone else also has an interest in an A2W system!



We'll likely be keeping the BOV/Recirculation mount similar to the OEM design, but it does look like there are already BOV adaptor plates out there for both engines

-Nick

Me as a newbie trying to understand this exchange. I know it's "words" and "english" but still....

 

[Mishimoto]

Me as a newbie trying to understand this exchange. I know it's "words" and "english" but still....

No worries! we're always happy to help!

For the first section, these Broncos have automated grill shutters that will need to be removed to fit in our high-mounted intercooler. The trouble is that this does trigger a code that will show a check engine light when they're unplugged, but that code is easily remedied with a performance tune.

In terms of the intercooling, we just dropped a tech article that goes over the difference in intercooling methods!
A TALE OF TWO SYSTEMS – INTERCOOLING SYSTEM OVERVIEW – AIR-TO-WATER VS. AIR-TO-AIR INTERCOOLERS

Finally, for the BOV, or blow-off valve. Your Bronco has a recirculation valve on the intercooler piping that redirects excess boost pressure back through the intake. As you add power, or just because it sounds cool, blow-off valves can vent that pressure to the atmosphere for that tell-tale "pshhht" when you let off the throttle. WE also have a tech article on those too that you can read here:

IT STARTED OUT WITH A PSSHT – BLOW-OFF VALVE TECHNICAL ARTICLE

Let me know if you have any other questions!

-Nick

 

[Rick Astley]

Gone are the days of having to rout hot water lines from the radiator to the intake manifold to prevent fuel vapors from freezing..... (this was standard on immediate post-war inline-6 engines, doubly so if the intake and exhaust ports were on the same side of the block)

What would the kids think these days of intentionally heating the intake charge???? No?

For Bronco, A2W seems fine if it's compact enough but you're going to have some serious routing to sort out and add ~2 hours of R&R to nearly any maintenance on the engine.

 

[Defyfate11]

No worries! we're always happy to help!

For the first section, these Broncos have automated grill shutters that will need to be removed to fit in our high-mounted intercooler. The trouble is that this does trigger a code that will show a check engine light when they're unplugged, but that code is easily remedied with a performance tune.

In terms of the intercooling, we just dropped a tech article that goes over the difference in intercooling methods!
A TALE OF TWO SYSTEMS – INTERCOOLING SYSTEM OVERVIEW – AIR-TO-WATER VS. AIR-TO-AIR INTERCOOLERS

Finally, for the BOV, or blow-off valve. Your Bronco has a recirculation valve on the intercooler piping that redirects excess boost pressure back through the intake. As you add power, or just because it sounds cool, blow-off valves can vent that pressure to the atmosphere for that tell-tale "pshhht" when you let off the throttle. WE also have a tech article on those too that you can read here:

IT STARTED OUT WITH A PSSHT – BLOW-OFF VALVE TECHNICAL ARTICLE

Let me know if you have any other questions!

-Nick

In my obsessiveness on getting an A2W intercooler, I observed the following:

For a top mounted A2W intercooler there will likely be hood interference with the stock hood, or at least it appears that way with my FE Bronco because of the sound deadening also being in place. There would also be wire pigtails needed to extend the sensor wires on top, along with rerouting the turbo cold pipes to the back and relocation of all sensors on those pipes. Then for those that live in California, this upgrade would need a CARB EO #.

For keeping things simpler, replace the stock A2A intercooler with an A2W heat exchanger and mount the A2W intercooler on the backside of it. The stock turbo pipes going into the stock IC would have to be fitted with a 90-degree fitting and then tie into the intercooler running parallel with the Heat exchanger. Once again living in California would require an CARB EO #

Conclusion- Brand new vehicle, I don't have the knowledge to build a system that is safe and performance tested so I will get what is currently on the market from reputable businesses and wait to see what the future holds. A2W intercooler paired with an interchiller (KillerChiller) will get IATs in the low 50's degrees Ferenhieght in California's 100+ Summer days.

 

[johndeerefarmer]

A must mod for us in high heat states...................

Not really... CAC's are great if you tow heavy, tow in the heat or drag race.. Bronco isn't really made for doing any of those things. If rock crawling in the heat I seriously doubt you will use enough power to even notice if the engine in pulling timing due to high IAT2, after all you are going to be in first gear.
I have a 17 F150 with an aftermarket Wagner CAC on it. I installed it because I was getting high IAT2 temps when pulling a 24' trailer with two SxS's on it. In the heat it was pulling a couple of degrees of timing. Yes the CAC brought IAT2 back down but you can't tell any difference in performance unless I am towing the trailer in the heat and trying to pass someone.
On top of that it was a big job to install the CAC and to change back for warranty work would be a PIA. Yeah, I know everybody quote the Magnuson Moss act but if you blow an engine or have other powertrain issues its to your advantage to have it stock..
I will not be replacing the stock CAC in my new Bronco or my next F150

 

[JoeSpeed]

Not really... CAC's are great if you tow heavy, tow in the heat or drag race.. Bronco isn't really made for doing any of those things. If rock crawling in the heat I seriously doubt you will use enough power to even notice if the engine in pulling timing due to high IAT2, after all you are going to be in first gear.
I have a 17 F150 with an aftermarket Wagner CAC on it. I installed it because I was getting high IAT2 temps when pulling a 24' trailer with two SxS's on it. In the heat it was pulling a couple of degrees of timing. Yes the CAC brought IAT2 back down but you can't tell any difference in performance unless I am towing the trailer in the heat and trying to pass someone.
On top of that it was a big job to install the CAC and to change back for warranty work would be a PIA. Yeah, I know everybody quote the Magnuson Moss act but if you blow an engine or have other powertrain issues its to your advantage to have it stock..
I will not be replacing the stock CAC in my new Bronco or my next F150

true, but can never put a price on peace of mind

 

[Mishimoto]

In my obsessiveness on getting an A2W intercooler, I observed the following:

For a top mounted A2W intercooler there will likely be hood interference with the stock hood, or at least it appears that way with my FE Bronco because of the sound deadening also being in place. There would also be wire pigtails needed to extend the sensor wires on top, along with rerouting the turbo cold pipes to the back and relocation of all sensors on those pipes. Then for those that live in California, this upgrade would need a CARB EO #.

For keeping things simpler, replace the stock A2A intercooler with an A2W heat exchanger and mount the A2W intercooler on the backside of it. The stock turbo pipes going into the stock IC would have to be fitted with a 90-degree fitting and then tie into the intercooler running parallel with the Heat exchanger. Once again living in California would require an CARB EO #

Conclusion- Brand new vehicle, I don't have the knowledge to build a system that is safe and performance tested so I will get what is currently on the market from reputable businesses and wait to see what the future holds. A2W intercooler paired with an interchiller (KillerChiller) will get IATs in the low 50's degrees Ferenhieght in California's 100+ Summer days.

Upgrading from A2A to A2W is definitely tricky, especially given the CARB regulations involved in different regions, BUT it's not an impossible task. Not to give too much away, but we do have some direct fit A2W conversions that will hopefully translate down to the Bronco

Not really... CAC's are great if you tow heavy, tow in the heat or drag race.. Bronco isn't really made for doing any of those things. If rock crawling in the heat I seriously doubt you will use enough power to even notice if the engine in pulling timing due to high IAT2, after all you are going to be in first gear.
I have a 17 F150 with an aftermarket Wagner CAC on it. I installed it because I was getting high IAT2 temps when pulling a 24' trailer with two SxS's on it. In the heat it was pulling a couple of degrees of timing. Yes the CAC brought IAT2 back down but you can't tell any difference in performance unless I am towing the trailer in the heat and trying to pass someone.
On top of that it was a big job to install the CAC and to change back for warranty work would be a PIA. Yeah, I know everybody quote the Magnuson Moss act but if you blow an engine or have other powertrain issues its to your advantage to have it stock..
I will not be replacing the stock CAC in my new Bronco or my next F150

When it comes to towing, we recommend leaning more towards upgrading your transmission and engine cooling components since those are much more integral to keeping your rig running smoothly.
The best use case for upgrading your intercooler is if you're on the quest for more power, and especially if you're adding a tune. Stock intercoolers are adequate for keeping things cool during daily duties, but hard driving conditions, or even sitting in traffic on a hot day is enough to heat soak these cores enough to diminish performance, especially once you're running more boost through the system.
Also, just a quick note on the Magnuson Moss Act, that definitely helps us as customers have a much broader choice of products at their disposal when it comes to maintaining their vehicles, but this typically refers more toward basic maintenance items like spark plugs, and fluids. These days, warranty claims are decided at the dealership level, so it's always important that you check in with your service rep before installing so you're not interfering with any dealer-provided service or potential warranty claims!

-Nick

 

[Mishimoto]

Hey Guys!

It's finally time for the long-awaited update on our intercooler kit! As always, make sure that you head over to our Engineering Blog for more info!

HIGH ROAD – 2021+ FORD BRONCO 2.3L/2.7L PERFORMANCE INTERCOOLER R&D, PART 2 – PROTOTYPING

Hitting the high road is not for the unprepared. This road less traveled is pocked with treacherous trenches and littered with rocky obstacles. While your Bronco is designed to glide over such tribulations, even the more hardened off-roader is still prepared for the eventuality that even Ford’s mighty Bronco might get stuck. From training to shakedown trips, combined with the necessary recovery gear, man, gear, and machine make for the optimal off-roading team, and we want to make sure that your Bronco is ready for any excursion.

We take on the same concept here at Mishimoto as we make clearance for winches while improving your Bronco’s performance. Relocating the intercooler, especially a vehicle with technology dripping from every corner, is complex, to say the least. Where our 3D scanning equipment and modeling software provide a scale virtual workspace for our engineers, nothing can top physically installing the design into the vehicle. So, to help streamline our process, we fired up our welders and 3D printers to fabricate our fitment prototype. Read more...

As always, don't hesitate to reach ut with any questions that you might have!

-Nick

 

[JoeSpeed]

 

[Mishimoto]

Haha, we're also STOKED to make progress on this project. Plenty more to come soon!

-Nick

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