The IFS vs SFA Thread

[Jalisurr]

How does the Bronco outscore the Wrangler in off-road tech?

How does it get better than F/R selectable lockers, disconnecting sway bars, and a 4:1 transfer case?

We have no idea what it will have, but the Wrangler doesn't have some off road tech that we have seen on the Raptor (and other vehicles), such as Trail Control and the off-road camera systems, plus the rumored new systems for the Bronco that we heard of a while ago (convoy communications, off-road PDR)

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[Fosters]

Well its not released yet so most of this scoring is irrelevant at the moment. All we have are assumptions, as stated, I just wanted to challenge some of the stated premises.

To answer your question the Bronco very well could have F/R selectable lockers, disconnecting sway bars, and a 4:1 T-case, among a few more advanced tech features the Wrangler either cant or doesn't offer.

If it doesn't offer a front locker you can bet it will at least be an LS, and Wrangler will have some advantage there, though LS's are preferred for a lot of other applications too. Maybe you can get either one? we'll see!

You will never see a limited slip offered from the factory in the front. A locker that's open when unlocked - like the rubicon - yes, but a limited slip will not happen. If you knew anything about offroading you'd know why that's a bad idea... Not to mention all of the negative side effects it would have on the street.

 

[Jalisurr]

You gave the Bronco an 8 in rock crawling? Is that a JOKE.....

Let’s be honest, IFS in a mass production rig is best at a 5 so let’s just give it a modest 5.5.

and the wrangler for a mass produced vehicle should get a 10 in that category. There is nothing on the market that can compete with it. So it should hold the standard.

Are you saying that if, let's say, a Honda Civic is a 1 and a Jeep Wrangler is a 10, you'd put something like a 4Runner TRD Pro at a 5?

EDIT: This is talking about stock form, not taking modification potential into account (as that has a separate category)

 

[Jalisurr]

You will never see a limited slip offered from the factory in the front. A locker that's open when unlocked - like the rubicon - yes, but a limited slip will not happen. If you knew anything about offroading you'd know why that's a bad idea... Not to mention all of the negative side effects it would have on the street.

There's a Torsen limited slip in the front of the Raptor from the factory, no reason they couldn't do the same in the Bronco

 

[TeocaliMG]

You will never see a limited slip offered from the factory in the front. A locker that's open when unlocked - like the rubicon - yes, but a limited slip will not happen. If you knew anything about offroading you'd know why that's a bad idea... Not to mention all of the negative side effects it would have on the street.

Oh shoot, I forgot I didn't know anything, let me go a head and just peace-on out of here. I am going to assume from what you just posted that you are talking about a very specific and sh*tty LS design that everyone agrees is bad, and is also not what Ford would offer. Also i'll pretend that you didn't actually mean they would never offer an LS because they literally already do.

 

[Nickp]

You will never see a limited slip offered from the factory in the front. A locker that's open when unlocked - like the rubicon - yes, but a limited slip will not happen. If you knew anything about offroading you'd know why that's a bad idea... Not to mention all of the negative side effects it would have on the street.

The new tremor super duty literally has this...

 

[Toyhoarder]

Well its not released yet so most of this scoring is irrelevant at the moment. All we have are assumptions, as stated, I just wanted to challenge some of the stated premises.

To answer your question the Bronco very well could have F/R selectable lockers, disconnecting sway bars, and a 4:1 T-case, among a few more advanced tech features the Wrangler either cant or doesn't offer.

If it doesn't offer a front locker you can bet it will at least be an LS, and Wrangler will have some advantage there, though LS's are preferred for a lot of other applications too. Maybe you can get either one? we'll see!

IF the Bronco has all those things it’ll potentially tie the Wrangler. Unless they throw in a winch or an air compressor it won’t beat it. I wouldn’t give the Bronco any points for Ford’s off-road drive modes.

 

[TeocaliMG]

IF the Bronco has all those things it’ll potentially tie the Wrangler. Unless they throw in a winch or an air compressor it won’t beat it. I wouldn’t give the Bronco any points for Ford’s off-road drive modes.

For me it comes down to exactly what those modes include. The hardware is definitely more important to me, but I still put some real value on choosing my steering level of input/assist as well as advanced traction control and the ability to shut said traction control off when I want.

 

[Toyhoarder]

You will never see a limited slip offered from the factory in the front. A locker that's open when unlocked - like the rubicon - yes, but a limited slip will not happen. If you knew anything about offroading you'd know why that's a bad idea... Not to mention all of the negative side effects it would have on the street.

You use four wheel drive on the street?

 

[Fosters]

There's a Torsen limited slip in the front of the Raptor from the factory, no reason they couldn't do the same in the Bronco

The torsen option take rate is very tiny... and just like a torsen would do when used in drag racing, it would get demolished for rock crawling. It's also a terrible idea driving around in the snow for example... you're pretty much guaranteed one of your front wheels will lose traction in a turn.

Are you saying that if, let's say, a Honda Civic is a 1 and a Jeep Wrangler is a 10, you'd put something like a 4Runner TRD Pro at a 5?

EDIT: This is talking about stock form, not taking modification potential into account (as that has a separate category)

Yes, 5. 10" of wheel travel is a joke for rock crawling. You're not doing this in a stock rig.

 

[Fosters]

You use four wheel drive on the street?

Yes, I've lived in MN, and I often go to snowy places.

 

[bbostic5]

You will never see a limited slip offered from the factory in the front. A locker that's open when unlocked - like the rubicon - yes, but a limited slip will not happen. If you knew anything about offroading you'd know why that's a bad idea... Not to mention all of the negative side effects it would have on the street.

The Raptor and Tremor package offer this... Do YOU know anything???

 

[Toyhoarder]

The torsen option take rate is very tiny... and just like a torsen would do when used in drag racing, it would get demolished for rock crawling. It's also a terrible idea driving around in the snow for example... you're pretty much guaranteed one of your front wheels will lose traction in a turn.


Yes, 5. 10" of wheel travel is a joke for rock crawling. You're not doing this in a stock rig.

Every Raptor I’ve looked at has been ordered with the 802A package which includes the Torsen. Dealers have limited allocation so they tend to get every option in order to maximize profit.

 

[Jalisurr]

The torsen option take rate is very tiny... and just like a torsen would do when used in drag racing, it would get demolished for rock crawling. It's also a terrible idea driving around in the snow for example... you're pretty much guaranteed one of your front wheels will lose traction in a turn.

Absolutely false. Rally cars, Subaru STIs, Mitsubishi Evos, etc have been using Torsen diffs front and rear for years. My Pajero Evo that I use for winter rallies that was made for the Dakar also has torsen diffs front and rear. There's a reason for that. The Torsen type diff will allow a speed differential but multiply torque across to the wheel with more traction, essentially pulling you around corners. It's with a locked diff that you are guaranteed that at least one wheel will slide because it is forced to. A locked front diff will push you wide when cornering.

 

[Fosters]

Absolutely false. Rally cars, Subaru STIs, Mitsubishi Evos, etc have been using Torsen diffs front and rear for years. My Pajero Evo that I use for winter rallies that was made for the Dakar also has torsen diffs front and rear. There's a reason for that. The Torsen type diff will allow a speed differential but multiply torque across to the wheel with more traction, essentially pulling you around corners. It's with a locked diff that you are guaranteed that at least one wheel will slide because it is forced to. A locked front diff will push you wide when cornering.

Any limited slip will require torque difference between the wheels to function. In a limited traction low speed situation you will be at a disadvantage as power is going to both wheels. Yes, in a rally situation when you're trying to push as much snow, it's a whole different issue.

Have you ever driven a rwd vehicle with an open diff in the rear vs a limited slip? You will spin out way quicker in the one with a limited slip in a corner for the exact same reason. When there is close to zero traction, the torque differential needed for that limited slip to do its job, will be greater. If it's really loose then you won't really get that limited slip action when more traction is needed.

You're acting as if you're insured 100% traction 100% of the time with a torsen. Why do subarus and mitsubishis resort to brake controlled traction control if those diffs are so awesome?

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