The IFS vs SFA Thread

[Nanook]

Mostly stayed out of this lately but this is just false. You have been on the forum long enough to know how much all of us have discussed IN DETAIL what makes a good off roader. The Everest, though a decent little Ute, does not get that list half complete disregarding even the suspension! Come on now.

What do we KNOW that’s any different?
The Everest IS a direct competitor to the 4Runner.
Bolt on the Ranger raptor arms and shocks, Add a rear locker (like every mfg) add fender flares with 32’s/33’s (Just like current mfg’s off-road models) and the most recent suite of off-road electronics like crawl control, snow and mud mode, hill decent (like every mfg) and BOOM you have the most realistic version of what we can assume the Bronco will be. Oh ya, there will be a 2 door version. Everyone likes to reiterate that one.

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[Nickp]

In the words of the great Papa Pizza Sweats: "STAY TUNED"

I wish I could double like this. So perfect.

 

[Carolina Jim]

BOOM you have the most realistic version of what we can assume the Bronco will be. Oh ya, there will be a 2 door version. Everyone likes to reiterate that one.

8.8" ground clearance; 193" LOA; looks like a slug on steroids

Gosh...there's just SO many reasons to be excited about a rugged mid-size 2-door with tons of sex appeal. I'm Enthused, but in reality I'm not an Enthusiast. If Bronco wasn't in the cards, I'd probably just buy another Renegade Trailhawk - but I'm really looking forward to something new & different.

 

[Jalisurr]

The Everest IS a direct competitor to the 4Runner.
Bolt on the Ranger raptor arms and shocks, Add a rear locker (like every mfg) add fender flares with 32’s/33’s (Just like current mfg’s off-road models) and the most recent suite of off-road electronics like crawl control, snow and mud mode, hill decent (like every mfg) and BOOM you have the most realistic version of what we can assume the Bronco will be. Oh ya, there will be a 2 door version. Everyone likes to reiterate that one.

Perfect . Give me that with good styling, 2.7 or 3.0 and a manual trans and I'm in. And preferably with a Torsen front diff too, they already have that in their other off-roady vehicles.

That seems like a recipe that will have a lot of appeal to people, except those who want to rock crawl with it. Everyone is loving the Ranger Raptor overseas as far as I can tell, and that's with a pretty slow diesel engine.

 

[Nanook]

Perfect . Give me that with good styling, 2.7 or 3.0 and a manual trans and I'm in. And preferably with a Torsen front diff too, they already have that in their other off-roady vehicles.

That seems like a recipe that will have a lot of appeal to people, except those who want to rock crawl with it. Everyone is loving the Ranger Raptor overseas as far as I can tell, and that's with a pretty slow diesel engine.

It seems like a recipe that could have been built 10years ago before the recession when the Everest was new. Oh wait it was: Xterra off-road/Pro4X had a locker and 32’s with a manual, the FJ has 32’s and a manual, the H3 had a locker, a v8 option and 33’s.

 

[Jalisurr]

It seems like a recipe that could have been built 10years ago before the recession when the Everest was new. Oh wait it was: Xterra off-road/Pro4X had a locker and 32’s with a manual, the FJ has 32’s and a manual, the H3 had a locker, a v8 option and 33’s.

Yep, totally. And this discussion has happened elsewhere on the forum already. The other vehicles you mentioned above were definitely in the same niche, though they had no removable roof (something I don't really care about, but others do and it helps with the image), and no 2 door swb version (which is something I DO really care about. Even the FJ was over 180" long). They also didn't really lean into the higher speed off-road image that IFS allows by putting on some long arms, flares, Fox shox etc. for a high performance version. Ford's got the opportunity to be one of the first back into the offroad SUV segment and to do it properly.

There's been argument about how much the recession played a part in the demise of the competitors from a decade ago with their relative newness to the market. I personally think it was definitely a factor, but we can't say for sure. The fact is that the market for off-roady vehicles in any form is hot right now with the TRD Pro vehicles, Raptors, ZR2s, etc all selling well. We don't have any of those older competitors around anymore to see how they do in the current environment, other than the 4Runner which is also selling quite well.

 

[Nanook]

Yep, totally. And this discussion has happened elsewhere on the forum already. The other vehicles you mentioned above were definitely in the same niche, though they had no removable roof (something I don't really care about, but others do and it helps with the image), and no 2 door swb version (which is something I DO really care about. Even the FJ was over 180" long). They also didn't really lean into the higher speed off-road image that IFS allows by putting on some long arms, flares, Fox shox etc. for a high performance version. Ford's got the opportunity to be one of the first back into the offroad SUV segment and to do it properly.

There's been argument about how much the recession played a part in the demise of the competitors from a decade ago with their relative newness to the market. I personally think it was definitely a factor, but we can't say for sure. The fact is that the market for off-roady vehicles in any form is hot right now with the TRD Pro vehicles, Raptors, ZR2s, etc all selling well. We don't have any of those older competitors around anymore to see how they do in the current environment, other than the 4Runner which is also selling quite well.

Yes I know, I made those comments. Nay sayers can blame the recession but it still coincides with the release of the 4dr wrangler which sold 2,3 even 4X of what the others did and still do.
Point is...what’s new?
We all know your intended use and you have to admit that in NorthAmerica you are I the minority group for off-roaders. So I understand your excitement based on the assumptions we can make of the Bronco.
It’s hilarious how much the fanboys on here switch their preference towards the latest announcement from Ford.
When I first came to this site, I was criticized for wanting a 2dr full-size bronco raptor. I was told just put a camper shell on a reg cab f150. Everyone wanted a modern EB wrangler fighter.
Ford shows the BroncoR and look at the change.

 

[Nickp]

Everyone wanted a modern EB wrangler fighter.
Ford shows the BroncoR and look at the change.

 

[Randy92Fox]

Yep, totally. And this discussion has happened elsewhere on the forum already. The other vehicles you mentioned above were definitely in the same niche, though they had no removable roof (something I don't really care about, but others do and it helps with the image), and no 2 door swb version (which is something I DO really care about. Even the FJ was over 180" long). They also didn't really lean into the higher speed off-road image that IFS allows by putting on some long arms, flares, Fox shox etc. for a high performance version. Ford's got the opportunity to be one of the first back into the offroad SUV segment and to do it properly.

There's been argument about how much the recession played a part in the demise of the competitors from a decade ago with their relative newness to the market. I personally think it was definitely a factor, but we can't say for sure. The fact is that the market for off-roady vehicles in any form is hot right now with the TRD Pro vehicles, Raptors, ZR2s, etc all selling well. We don't have any of those older competitors around anymore to see how they do in the current environment, other than the 4Runner which is also selling quite well.

The used market for all 3 mentioned vehicles is also outrageous at the moment.

We all know your intended use and you have to admit that in NorthAmerica you are I the minority group for off-roaders. So I understand your excitement based on the assumptions we can make of the Bronco.

So not rock-crawling is the minority of off-roading? That is soooooo far-fetched.

 

[Nanook]

You mean like a full size raptor bronco, that wouldn’t compete directly with ANYTHING? I agree Steve.

 

[Nanook]

The used market for all 3 mentioned vehicles is also outrageous at the moment.


So not rock-crawling is the minority of off-roading? That is soooooo far-fetched.

He wants a rally vehicle, don’t twist it

 

[Jalisurr]

Yes I know, I made those comments. Nay sayers can blame the recession but it still coincides with the release of the 4dr wrangler which sold 2,3 even 4X of what the others did and still do.
Point is...what’s new?

What's new is that the market loves any off roader right now. And like Randy92Fox mentioned, the used values on all of those old competitors are very strong, so there's demand for that type of vehicle.

We all know your intended use and you have to admit that in NorthAmerica you are I the minority group for off-roaders. So I understand your excitement based on the assumptions we can make of the Bronco.

Yeah, totally. I have and continue to freely admit that I'm in the minority among the enthusiasts. The thing is, the enthusiasts are the minority already.

Look at the poll even on this forum about what people want for the Bronco. Yes, more people care about rock crawling than high speed, but the majority only want capability for moderate trails. What's more, more people care about daily driveability than rock crawling and high speed combined. IFS is better for a daily driver and still able to do moderate trails no problem. So Ford could please the majority with IFS, and then to give it the necessary off road image they make a high speed version because that's easy, they already know how to do that from the Raptors. It just so happens that would be exactly what I want. In no way do I expect Ford to launch a vehicle with the intention of catering to me, but they may wind up doing it anyways.

 

[TeocaliMG]

When I first came to this site, I was criticized for wanting a 2dr full-size bronco raptor. I was told just put a camper shell on a reg cab f150. Everyone wanted a modern EB wrangler fighter.
Ford shows the BroncoR and look at the change.

I personally have never been a fan of the "Just go buy this" or "Just add this" arguments which have come from all sides and directions. I think most of us here can see through the strawman arguments anyway. I have always wanted all around performer, a jack of all trades, and we have discussed in length what that even means. I cant speak for everyone but I like the performance attributes associated with IFS, and have little/no care for the on road performance.

I think that we can all agree that even the most enthusiastic off-roaders do not belong to a monolithic genre of off-roading, and therefore there is not a single solution to make every enthusiast perfectly happy. Similarly I think most can agree that the Wrangler probably casts the widest "enthusiast" net, though not by astronomical margins.

This thread has proven that we may never come to the same conclusions as to what drives Wranglers success since it offers so many competitive advantages independently from having SFA, and I mean a lot! The Bronco may be the first competitor to take it to Wrangler in every way, but with a different suspension architecture. The same cannot be said for all the previous IFS rigs that keep getting drug in here.

With that in mind, if we wish to keep this "beating a dead horse" thread on topic we should keep it to something along the lines of "Does IFS or SFA cast the wider enthusiast net" or "Which system offers more performance potential". But as others have pointed out this effort is mostly futile until you know more about the Bronco anyway.

 

[Fosters]

Yep, totally. And this discussion has happened elsewhere on the forum already. The other vehicles you mentioned above were definitely in the same niche, though they had no removable roof (something I don't really care about, but others do and it helps with the image), and no 2 door swb version (which is something I DO really care about. Even the FJ was over 180" long). They also didn't really lean into the higher speed off-road image that IFS allows by putting on some long arms, flares, Fox shox etc. for a high performance version. Ford's got the opportunity to be one of the first back into the offroad SUV segment and to do it properly.

There's been argument about how much the recession played a part in the demise of the competitors from a decade ago with their relative newness to the market. I personally think it was definitely a factor, but we can't say for sure. The fact is that the market for off-roady vehicles in any form is hot right now with the TRD Pro vehicles, Raptors, ZR2s, etc all selling well. We don't have any of those older competitors around anymore to see how they do in the current environment, other than the 4Runner which is also selling quite well.

... and yet those competitors are long gone, and the wrangler made it just fine. If only there was something the wrangler has that the others don't...

 

[TeocaliMG]

... and yet those competitors are long gone, and the wrangler made it just fine. If only there was something the wrangler has that the others don't...

some... thing...? singular? Facepalm

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