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The right suspension kit?

ZackDanger

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If you’re going to be going 37s or bigger, and you’ll be changing out UCA and coilovers anyway, and picking out exactly the wheels and tires you want, it may be cheaper to start with a trim with the base suspension (Base-OB).

If you get the BL or anything Sas, you’ll be paying for the upgraded components twice when you replace them.

The rub is the incidentals (like gearing, axle diameter, sway bar disconnect, etc).

I guess what I’m saying is: Sas doesn’t necessarily make a good “starting point”… it’s more likely a great ending point as long as it’s what you want.

You really have to crunch the numbers.
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goatman

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Excellent point. Does the weight of the Bronco (she's a big girl) factor in as much as I think it would? That's like a body builder who never does leg day....

Yes and no. Yes, weight always matters, as there is more kinetic energy to control. But also no, since the springs carry the load, not the shocks. Heavier car, higher rate springs. A spring is rated as pounds per inch, like 300 lbs per inch of spring compression. If a car weighed 4000 lbs, and all four corners weighed the same (1000 lbs), and the spring rate was 250 lbs per inch, at ride height the spring would be compressed four inches. It would take 250 additional lbs of force, through absorbing bumps, to compress the spring another inch, and 250 lbs for each additional inch. Now, in this example with the spring compressed 4 in, there is also 4 inches of usable down travel since the spring will unseat after 4 inches of downward travel.

A progressive rate spring has a variable rate, starting out less and getting more as the spring compresses. Think I read that the Bronco springs are progressive. For example, it could start at 150 lbs per inch and increase to 300 lbs per inch. This does a couple things. It allows for more spring compression to handle the corner weight, which then allows for more usable down travel. It also provides a more compliant/softer ride at ride height but increases spring rate/resistance as the suspension compresses to better handle big bumps.

I know you didn't ask this exactly, but because you're interested thought I'd take the liberty to give out a more detailed explanation. Off road is kinda new to many of the folks getting a Bronco, so a deeper explanation might be appreciated. Besides, I'm mostly retired so have nothing better to do. 🙂
 
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Yes and no. Yes, weight always matters, as there is more kinetic energy to control. But also no, since the springs carry the load, not the shocks. Heavier car, higher rate springs. A spring is rated as pounds per inch, like 300 lbs per inch of spring compression. If a car weighed 4000 lbs, and all four corners weighed the same (1000 lbs), and the spring rate was 250 lbs per inch, at ride height the spring would be compressed four inches. It would take 250 additional lbs of force, through absorbing bumps, to compress the spring another inch, and 250 lbs for each additional inch. Now, in this example with the spring compressed 4 in, there is also 4 inches of usable down travel since the spring will unseat after 4 inches of downward travel.

A progressive rate spring has a variable rate, starting out less and getting more as the spring compresses. Think I read that the Bronco springs are progressive. For example, it could start at 150 lbs per inch and increase to 300 lbs per inch. This does a couple things. It allows for more spring compression to handle the corner weight, which then allows for more usable down travel. It also provides a more compliant/softer ride at ride height but increases spring rate/resistance as the suspension compresses to better handle big bumps.

I know you didn't ask this exactly, but because you're interested thought I'd take the liberty to give out a more detailed explanation. Off road is kinda new to many of the folks getting a Bronco, so a deeper explanation might be appreciated. Besides, I'm mostly retired so have nothing better to do. 🙂
No, this is awesome! I do appreciate the details, and it really helps with what to consider and why.
 
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Big Lig

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Yes and no. Yes, weight always matters, as there is more kinetic energy to control. But also no, since the springs carry the load, not the shocks. Heavier car, higher rate springs. A spring is rated as pounds per inch, like 300 lbs per inch of spring compression. If a car weighed 4000 lbs, and all four corners weighed the same (1000 lbs), and the spring rate was 250 lbs per inch, at ride height the spring would be compressed four inches. It would take 250 additional lbs of force, through absorbing bumps, to compress the spring another inch, and 250 lbs for each additional inch. Now, in this example with the spring compressed 4 in, there is also 4 inches of usable down travel since the spring will unseat after 4 inches of downward travel.

A progressive rate spring has a variable rate, starting out less and getting more as the spring compresses. Think I read that the Bronco springs are progressive. For example, it could start at 150 lbs per inch and increase to 300 lbs per inch. This does a couple things. It allows for more spring compression to handle the corner weight, which then allows for more usable down travel. It also provides a more compliant/softer ride at ride height but increases spring rate/resistance as the suspension compresses to better handle big bumps.

I know you didn't ask this exactly, but because you're interested thought I'd take the liberty to give out a more detailed explanation. Off road is kinda new to many of the folks getting a Bronco, so a deeper explanation might be appreciated. Besides, I'm mostly retired so have nothing better to do. 🙂
Of course, the more I talk to you about it, the more I realize I am either waiting to buy, or basically building, the Warthog/Raptor. lol
 

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Of course, the more I talk to you about it, the more I realize I am either waiting to buy, or basically building, the Warthog/Raptor. lol
You wouldn't go wrong there! I want a 2dr, which wouldn't make sense to use as a Raptor version. The longer wheelbase of the 4dr would go along with the Raptor's purpose of go fast Baja style build. And, if they give it the 3.0.......f#ck yeah!
 

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You wouldn't go wrong there! I want a 2dr, which wouldn't make sense to use as a Raptor version. The longer wheelbase of the 4dr would go along with the Raptor's purpose of go fast Baja style build. And, if they give it the 3.0.......f#ck yeah!
Well that is a good point… I was considering a 2 door, but a 4 door isn’t off the table.
 

Werkedperformance

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There is something else to consider here, in my opinion. COST.

A set of the Bilsteins is roughly $1300 dollars. FOUR SHOCKS, with integrated hydraulic bump stops and limit stops. AND If I blow one I'll be able to get a replacement by end of day in large metropolitan markets.

One pair of Kings or Fox will be 1500 for basic bitch shocks. More money with adjusters and features, and no true bumpstops.
Is a set of standard Fox or Kings better than ESCV?
I'd like to see slow motion video of the same truck at identical speeds hitting the same section to make that declaration.
Would the ESCV shocks handle mixed shaft speeds better because of the valve system vs King/Fox being tuned more to a given shaft speed??

Im curious if its worth ditching the ESCV for standard coilovers, or if a more advanced coilover/system is needed to be comparable....
 

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Maxlider is making a kit for sasquatch lift. Be interested to see what they come up with.
 

dweskamp

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That's what I was thinking... that the SAS would then need to change the shocks (to coil overs) and control arms...but what else still remains to be determined right?
Maxlider is making a sasquatch specific lift for 37s
 

Bradley Thornton

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I'll be Badlands sasquatch KM3 37x12.5r17 (really 36.5in)
I maybe wrong but I think a leveling kit will do it. (I may need a heat gun and a softball but thats to be expected)
If the rear rubs I'll raise it an 1in also.
If needed I will get new UCA

Front
https://www.tccustoms.com/collections/suspension-1/products/zone-offroad-1-leveling-kit-2021-bronco

Rear (I would use part off this kit to make the rear work and if I need a little more on the front I may could make this fronts work)
https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/4-wheel-parts-factory-bronco-level-lift-kit-62210k/_/R-4WPBR-62210K

I expect it to take some fabrication thats just part of the fun. If I have binding the UCA should fix that.

Little math
Stock tire 34.7-36.5=1.8 divide by 2 = .9in Leveling lift is 1.1in stock wheels are -35 I think they will fit. Call me crazy.

The Zone lift spits it so it may not work but But again if it was easy everyone would do it.
 
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IDK, the fox set up is only 2 1/4” bodies and the king is 2.5”. The bigger the shock piston the better the performance. I would keep an eye out on the MCR (micheal Cox Racing) set up that has Internal Bypasses with finned reservoirs if you want the best performance. Believe me the finned resi’s are excellent at dissipating heat. I have a finned set on the rear of my RZR and a non finned set on the front. The rear the shocks never heat up and the fronts get too hot to touch.
Don’t get me wrong the fox shows will perform way better than the stock billstien shocks and leaps and bounds better than the lower equipped trucks but if you want to get rowdy then internal bypasses will be the peak in performance with a single shock set up at each corner.
 

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I haven't had a look at the 4600 Bronco yet, that Brad Lovell is driving. It wasn't ready yet for KOH this year. I'll see it in Feb (I'm retired racing, but now I'm a tech inspector at KOH). Will be interesting to see how much travel they got out of it with the class restrictions for 4600, can't cut or modify the frame in any way. Pretty cool that they used 74Weld portal boxes on the front, that solves the CV shaft angle problem...but those bad boys are $8k per side. :oops:
Hey Richard,
when you get a chance to see Brad's rig give us a few clues on how they flattened the undercarriage for sliders. He mentioned using a cutting board type material to smooth it out allowing them to slide over the rocks. I think with the Sasquatch setup some frame mounted rock rails , shock protectors combined with a smooth belly while using some driving technique there will be few places I will want to go through but can't. :cool:

I agree that the 74Weld portal boxes are 🤑 & are not going to be within my builds reach but if they where ever around $8k for the complete setup :whistle: ;) I know keep dreaming :unsure:
 

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IDK, the fox set up is only 2 1/4” bodies and the king is 2.5”. The bigger the shock piston the better the performance. I would keep an eye out on the MCR (micheal Cox Racing) set up that has Internal Bypasses with finned reservoirs if you want the best performance. Believe me the finned resi’s are excellent at dissipating heat. I have a finned set on the rear of my RZR and a non finned set on the front. The rear the shocks never heat up and the fronts get too hot to touch.
Don’t get me wrong the fox shows will perform way better than the stock billstien shocks and leaps and bounds better than the lower equipped trucks but if you want to get rowdy then internal bypasses will be the peak in performance with a single shock set up at each corner.
The problem with internal bypasses is that they can't be tuned, well, not much anyway (the valve stack can be changed, but the bypass zones are locked in). The tuning has to be done by the company offering the kit, and we have to trust that they spent the time with the shock company to get it right. Yes, since external bypasses can't be used with a coilover, then properly tuned internal bypasses from a top company could be the best situation. However, I still think I'd take a 2.5" King or Fox with the compression clickers, that I could tweak on and do additional tuning, and a good set of bump stops, over someone's aftermarket internal bypass. We'll have to see who comes out with what, and how we all want to use and build our Broncos, and how much money folks are willing to throw at them. It's going to get interesting.

I wonder if Bilstein will continue to develop the shock product that's used on the Bronco for aftermarket. It's a pretty interesting solution for internal bypass on a coilover. And, if it's rebuildable, it's also tunable. We'll find out how reliable they are.
 

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Yes you really can’t tune internal bypass shocks but my internal bypass kings also have compression clickers. Also the internal bypass have a bump zone. Not a bump stop though.
 

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Total newb POV here. I don't know the differences between the shocks, lifts, etc, sort of.

I know the basics, lift vs level, etc. But.... it seems to me most lifts and discussion focuses on rock crawling, and articulation. Most kits focus on that, it seems. What about that go fast baja style enthusiasts? What would the King of the Hammers happy medium folks need?

Is anyone making a medium arm travel kit? In my limited understanding, to build a KotH go fast and climb effectively type of rig, this would be ideal right? It's like what Healy said, 2" of lift and 2" wider stance..... but none of the kits I have found have this type of design.
Contact off-road suppliers and buy a entire kit. Don't piece meal it. You want all components to work together
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