V8 Jeep Wrangler production prototype spied testing

[DBOZ]

I would buy a Coyote Bronco as first choice. If they 392 the Gladiator I may go that route. A year still to wait on a Bronco and if they screw up this reservation stuff that allows dealers to gouge, I will not hesitate to bail. This is not some holy grail vehicle. Is anyone seriously buying any of these with gas mileage as a concern? I want the sound and fury of a V8. Supercharging them is easy. But that 392 Gladiator could pull me away. FORD is on the verge of screwing it up again. If I lose my reservation, I will just wait an extra year. Who knows what my decision will be then?

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[Laminar]

Was it not car and driver or TFL that did tests to see the real world difference on the JGC of the V6 and V8 fuel economy and achieved better fuel economy on the 8?

Post it up!

Turbo 6s are a dead end I’ll believe otherwise when Ford replaces the Mustang/super duty V8 engines with EcoBoost engines.

50-150hp: NA 4cyl
150hp-300hp: Turbo 4cyl
300hp-450hp: Turbo 6cyl
450hp+: V8

Efficiency, emissions, weight, packaging, and power all currently favor the above ranges. Note that the current EcoBoost engine in the base Mustang makes more power than every V8 Mustang GT until 2011. So in that case, Ford did replace a V8 with an EcoBoost.

The current Explorer makes more power than the lauded Terminator Cobra.

The Mustang's V8 is outside of those ranges, as is the Super Duty. But then there's the Cummins, a turbo-6 has historically smashed the Navistar V8s for reliability.

V8 go brrrrrrrrr

 

[Monster1926]

Any idiot could do that with half the engine. No doubt there will be a bunch of morons driving big tired Broncos who aren't used to the dynamics of that kind of vehicle who crash it. It won't be the vehicles fault in either case.

They’re acting like a straight axle and V8 is something new. Plenty of these have been converted and people are happy.

 

[Monster1926]

I would buy a Coyote Bronco as first choice. If they 392 the Gladiator I may go that route. A year still to wait on a Bronco and if they screw up this reservation stuff that allows dealers to gouge, I will not hesitate to bail. This is not some holy grail vehicle. Is anyone seriously buying any of these with gas mileage as a concern? I want the sound and fury of a V8. Supercharging them is easy. But that 392 Gladiator could pull me away. FORD is on the verge of screwing it up again. If I lose my reservation, I will just wait an extra year. Who knows what my decision will be then?

Seems like ford is doing just that. I read they’re not letting you move your reservation. They’re having you cancel and place another reservation. I assume dealers complained and forced ford to do it. It’s ashame they gave the power to the buyer for once.

 

[Laminar]

Gotta love how you used the least powerful n/a v6 to compare to the 5.0...

The assertion was "The days of V8s being inefficient are long past." Not "horsepower for horsepower, V8s are only slightly less efficient than V6s."

How about something closer in power, and since we're talking about offroaders, 4x4?

All of a sudden that difference isn't that big... Keep in mind the 3.5 is a 600 dollar more expensive option over the 5.0...

The 3.5 is a major power upgrade and enables much higher towing capacities and acceleration, and offers the same real world mpg. If you wanted something with equivalent capability, you'd need to go with the 2.7, which handily beats the 5.0 in real world mpg while offering similar acceleration.

Say what you want, but the market has spoken and less than a quarter of F-150s sold get the V8. Buyers love actually having lots of low-end power without having to wind up an NA engine to get it, and still see real world mpg benefits.

 

[Laminar]

My degree is in engineering,

But not automotive engineering, obviously. My standard rule applies - an engineer trying to throw their degree around in a conversation outside of their current job's duties is not to be trusted.

which is why I prefer a V8 over a Rube Goldberg contraption. There’s no advantage to the turbo 6 over the 8.

Yes, besides power, low-end torque, packaging, weight, efficiency, towing capacity, and tunability, there are no advantages.

None.

F-150 3.5EB max towing: 13,200
F-150 5.0 V8 max towing: 11,500
GMC Sierra 1500 6.2 max towing: 12,100
Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi max towing: 12,750

GUYS! NO ADVANTAGES! STOP LOOKING!

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

How does a 30 grand bronco end up 65k with a v8? In the F150, the 2.7 is a 1000 dollar option, the 5.0 is a 2000 dollar option. Let alone a "10-20k premium". And they use the same transmission...




The n/a v8 is much harder to work on than a twin turbo v6? Do 2 extra coil on plugs confuse you more than 20 ft of piping?

And faster? Lol, 1 truck length at 1 mile above sea level, while having a gearing disadvantage (on the v8):



At sea level with the same gears those trucks will be identical at best if not the V8 might be a hair quicker...

And once again, if you're desperate for horsepower, the whipple coyotes are in the 750-800hp easy...

1 f150 was DESIGNED from the ground up to handle a v8. Did you not see how much work it took for Jeep to stuff that v8 in? Move EVERYTHING out of the engine bay, add Reinforcement to the frame everywhere. bigger and stronger motor mounts. Larger front suspension. And more! Bronco is going to need all that too

2 Harder to work on because you have NO room. The 2.7 barley fits as it is. Let alone a v8. You would have to drop the engine every time you wanted to change the spark plugs Or change the belt.

3 you are correct in the f150 it’s nearly IDENTICAL with the same gearing . ~14.5 quarter mile under 6s to 60. But that’s at sea level. Anything above that it’s game over.

4 if you desperate for power a tune and bolt ons will take the 2.7 up to 400hp 500lbft. ($2000 tops) That’s before we even talk about fuel systems upgrades. ($2000) and then turbo upgrades $4000. So under $8000 for 600hp 700lnft Orr

$10k+ just for a 400hp400lbft v8 then another $15k for a blower. Cool.

 

[Randy92Fox]

1 v8 would NOT sell like hot cakes. V8. Bronco would be 65+k v8 wrangler almost 80k no one is going to pay a 10-20k premium JUST for a v8.

2 yes eco or boost. It’s a very smart system. Driving Around the city. Don’t hit 2500 rpm. Going off roading BALLSOut.

3 do you think there’s only 4 f150 on the lot? Within 50 miles of my house there 1660 F150 for sale. 150 v8! if you can’t pick a vehicle from 150 different trucks you have an issue. Also you can see how much higher demand is. Closer to 3:1

4 is getting go mpg a bad thing?

5 lol Fi v8? Glad you have 120k to blow.

1) in the F150 XLT the 5.0 costs $1,000 more than the 2.7. Not sure where the other $24k on your estimate is coming from.
2) sure
3)when I was looking I very specifically wanted an fx4, 5.0, 6.5 ft box - in several months of searching I think I came across 3-5 of them and probably skipped over 30+ ecoboosts.
4) you missed my point. They don't actually get better mpg. Only for the scenario in which they're tested for the epa. In real world applications the 5.0 gets better mileage than the 3.5 ecoboost. Go check fuelly for millions of miles of independent data to back that up.
5) again...not tracking your math here. First a v8 upgrade takes the bronco price to $65k and now adding a turbo or supercharger to a v8 costs another $55k?

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

1) in the F150 XLT the 5.0 costs $1,000 more than the 2.7. Not sure where the other $24k on your estimate is coming from.
2) sure
3)when I was looking I very specifically wanted an fx4, 5.0, 6.5 ft box - in several months of searching I think I came across 3-5 of them and probably skipped over 30+ ecoboosts.
4) you missed my point. They don't actually get better mpg. Only for the scenario in which they're tested for the epa. In real world applications the 5.0 gets better mileage than the 3.5 ecoboost. Go check fuelly for millions of miles of independent data to back that up.
5) again...not tracking your math here. First a v8 upgrade takes the bronco price to $65k and now adding a turbo or supercharger to a v8 costs another $55k?

1 it’s not just a simple engine swap. It’s a new frame. New front suspension. Moving all the additional stuff under the hood out and much more. Hence the much more expensive option.

2x

3 within 100 miles of me. Almost 100 v8 FX4. About 1/4 is 6.5 bed. If you’d going to be that picky you have to drive.

4 2.7 is the 5.0 replacement NOT 3.5!!!
both have 400lbft. The 2.7 gets 4 MPG better than the 5.0 and that’s because most people have a lead foot. Every ecoboost I’ve ever driven I’ve had 0 issues getting over EPA numbers. Don’t blame ford for you shitty driving habits.

5 a v8 bronco would cost 70k+ from the factory. Getting a shop to slap on a blower the right way would be $20k easy (kit from roush alone is 10k)

 

[Randy92Fox]

1 it’s not just a simple engine swap. It’s a new frame. New front suspension. Moving all the additional stuff under the hood out and much more. Hence the much more expensive option.

2x

3 within 100 miles of me. Almost 100 v8 FX4. About 1/4 is 6.5 bed. If you’d going to be that picky you have to drive.

4 2.7 is the 5.0 replacement NOT 3.5!!!
both have 400lbft. The 2.7 gets 4 MPG better than the 5.0 and that’s because most people have a lead foot. Every ecoboost I’ve ever driven I’ve had 0 issues getting over EPA numbers. Don’t blame ford for you shitty driving habits.

5 a v8 bronco would cost 70k+ from the factory. Getting a shop to slap on a blower the right way would be $20k easy (kit from roush alone is 10k)

I understand the cost of a swap at this point but IMO it was an oversight. 5.0 really doesn't take up much more space than the 2.7 does it?

When I was searching I was literally looking cross country on autotempest. My other limiting factor was price and what I felt comfortable paying for a used f150 that wasn't a Raptor - also was looking at those but holding out for the Bronco.

My driving habits are good. All of the vehicles I've owned I've always beaten the epa figures. I was pointing out thousands of other people not meeting the epa figures as anecdotal evidence doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

I understand the cost of a swap at this point but IMO it was an oversight. 5.0 really doesn't take up much more space than the 2.7 does it?

When I was searching I was literally looking cross country on autotempest. My other limiting factor was price and what I felt comfortable paying for a used f150 that wasn't a Raptor - also was looking at those but holding out for the Bronco.

My driving habits are good. All of the vehicles I've owned I've always beaten the epa figures. I was pointing out thousands of other people not meeting the epa figures as anecdotal evidence doesn't mean a whole lot.

5.0 is about 3” Longer, 6” wider 8” taller than the 2.7/3.0 ecoboost

very large

 

[Randy92Fox]

5.0 is about 3” Longer, 6” wider 8” taller than the 2.7/3.0 ecoboost

very large

Gotcha, that width and height difference would certainly take some work to overcome.

 

[OX1]

V6 makes more torque from 1750 -4000 rpm. And your clutch and torque converter arnt hooking up till 1750 meaning below that is pointless.




v6 torque is nearly flat from 1750-4500 rpm. More flat than v8

AFTER it SPOOLS UP!!! Stop reading dyno curves and assume that curve is available instantly, at any time. It's not!

Just because instantaneous torque, on and off the throttle FROM IDLE is something you don't need, does not mean others don't. I crawl along on moderate trails, in 3rd a 3 speed auto at right around 1500 RPM on a smogged 400 with only a cam/intake (even stock single exh).

It only takes a minor blip to bump over some pretty big stuff (usually with a bit of momentum, as I have ZERO clearance issues on even the toughest trails). Maybe the 5.0 may not do what I need either, but a small turbo motor won't @ that low an RPM. Now maybe it might come close if you keep it in a 3000 RPM range ALL day long. Still won't be linear and there will be times the torque comes in too strong, right after you really wanted. it. I don't want a motor I have to treat like I'm TIG welding, with constant input/feedback required, when I didn't get quite what I really hoped for.

 

[FirstOnRaceDay]

AFTER it SPOOLS UP!!! Stop reading dyno curves and assume that curve is available instantly, at any time. It's not!

Just because instantaneous torque, on and off the throttle FROM IDLE is something you don't need, does not mean others don't. I crawl along on moderate trails, in 3rd a 3 speed auto at right around 1500 RPM on a smogged 400 with only a cam/intake (even stock single exh).

It only takes a minor blip to bump over some pretty big stuff (usually with a bit of momentum, as I have ZERO clearance issues on even the toughest trails). Maybe the 5.0 may not do what I need either, but a small turbo motor won't @ that low an RPM. Now maybe it might come close if you keep it in a 3000 RPM range ALL day long. Still won't be linear and there will be times the torque comes in too strong, right after you really wanted. it. I don't want a motor I have to treat like I'm TIG welding, with constant input/feedback required, when I didn't get quite what I really hoped for.

so what’s your complaint?
when in 4 low you have 10,000
lbft at 1000rpm at the wheels Idk if you need much more.
its not some old 80 turbo or some big diesel either. It’s 12psi.... it’s not going to slam on and off at 1500 rpm or something. It’s very controlled. Especially with modern day electric throttles and fuel injection.

 

[Randy92Fox]

@FirstOnRaceDay hey Devin, I feel like I owe you an apology for some of my comments in this thread which were condescending. Thank you for your time and commitment as a moderator here and I respect your opinions and insight even if we may not agree on everything. -Randy

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