Warranty denial- HEADS UP

[MLRey]

I wanted to let everyone know what my dealership experience was like at my local Ford dealership.

At 5500k miles I noticed grease on my driver side LCA during an oil change.

I quickly realized it was CV boot grease. I brought the bronco into the dealership at that time. They confirmed that this was the case and they said that it was a known issue that occasionally the heat press process used to bind the rubber boot to the shaft can fail. The technician said he “he knew what it was as soon as he saw it”.

They take pics and send them to the person that makes these decisions because their service manager is not in that day. This other person looks at the pics, approves the CV replacement under warranty and away we go. Parts ordered and arrived. Repair day arrives.

I’m told after the fact that the service manager was annoyed because he would not have approved it if he wa at here because of my spacers and 37s.

Note- my CVs are have perfect geometry. This should have been a clearly warrantied repair.

For funsies, I go to pick it up and as I’m pulling away I here the steering linkage clunking. Nope. Back right up to the service bay and shut her down again.

It was the tie rod nut. Clearly it was not tightened or torqued correctly. The tech had match marked it like it was a wrap but the nut was loose by 4 THREADS on the bolt relative to the opposing side (visually easy to compare).

Nope tech insists he did his job and that this is because of a single use nut failure. I am now waiting for 4 more days while they fly in a nut from out of state.

Great.

So I came out on top but just be aware.

If it's a "known issue" then it's likely there is a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that describes the problem, the solution and whether it's under warranty. There are online services you can access to see TSBs but you'll probably have to pay a fee. Access to them was very helpful many years ago when I had some odd issues with my Expedition that the dealer could not duplicate. After 3 years I finally found the TSB that described the issue exactly. Took the TSB to the dealer and they confirmed the problem and ended up replacing the rear axle. I had to do all the research as the SM wouldn't bother to search through Fords TSB database. A little effort on their part would have solved the problem much sooner.

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[Ozbronco]

khk

The only ones that share CVs shafts are badlands and SAS, which only have a .43” lift difference. Those angles would probably be near identical.

I'm looking at going to 35s on my Badlands. Since the SAS comes with 35's there shouldn't be any issue with CV shafts on my BL, correct?

 

[Ducati1098]

I'm looking at going to 35s on my Badlands. Since the SAS comes with 35's there shouldn't be any issue with CV shafts on my BL, correct?

No not at all.

 

[dgorsett]

Unless you actually read the warranty…. You‘re correct that they can’t deny your warranty because of the tires or lift - unless the tires or lift actually cause a connected part to fail.

“Repairs due to any alterations or modifications to the Vehicle not approved or recommended by the manufacturer, including but not limited to: (a) failure of any custom or add-on / aftermarket part (unless listed as a specific covered part); (b) emissions and/or exhaust systems modifications; engine modifications, transmission modifications, and/or drive axle modifications, which includes any performance modifications; (c) oversized/undersized tires; (d) all frame or suspension modifications;

Lift kits that exceed two (2) inches; repairs to covered components that are the direct result of the failure of a lift kit that exceeds two (2) inches;”

I guess I'll have to dig out my warranty, that exceeds 2 inch language should set a lot of folks at ease. I've always felt 2 inches to be the limit wo a diff drop and went 1.5 myself

 

[dgorsett]

I guess I'll have to dig out my warranty, that exceeds 2 inch language should set a lot of folks at ease. I've always felt 2 inches to be the limit wo a diff drop and went 1.5 myself

OK, I looked up the warranty, the only place I could find it printed was in a link from Ford Pass. I did find language about lift kits, tires etc. potentially Making a repair not covered, but I did not find the 2" qualifier...??

 

[HOSSMAN]

What shop is yours? I’m oretty sure most of the people here would like to use you for any denied or potentially denied claims

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[TheRealLizG]

I wanted to let everyone know what my dealership experience was like at my local Ford dealership.

At 5500k miles I noticed grease on my driver side LCA during an oil change.

I quickly realized it was CV boot grease. I brought the bronco into the dealership at that time. They confirmed that this was the case and they said that it was a known issue that occasionally the heat press process used to bind the rubber boot to the shaft can fail. The technician said he “he knew what it was as soon as he saw it”.

They take pics and send them to the person that makes these decisions because their service manager is not in that day. This other person looks at the pics, approves the CV replacement under warranty and away we go. Parts ordered and arrived. Repair day arrives.

I’m told after the fact that the service manager was annoyed because he would not have approved it if he wa at here because of my spacers and 37s.

Note- my CVs are have perfect geometry. This should have been a clearly warrantied repair.

For funsies, I go to pick it up and as I’m pulling away I here the steering linkage clunking. Nope. Back right up to the service bay and shut her down again.

It was the tie rod nut. Clearly it was not tightened or torqued correctly. The tech had match marked it like it was a wrap but the nut was loose by 4 THREADS on the bolt relative to the opposing side (visually easy to compare).

Nope tech insists he did his job and that this is because of a single use nut failure. I am now waiting for 4 more days while they fly in a nut from out of state.

Great.

So I came out on top but just be aware.

Hmmm interesting I’ve also notice a grease leaks from under the bronco. No smell
Or color but an orange size spot on my garage floor. Will address next oil change. No major mods on my vehicle but aware any sort of change to factory can cause your insurance or warranty to be obsolete.

 

[omi205]

What if you upgrade to different 35s? Let's say after the stock sas tires go, I end up moving to another set of 35" tires (KO2s or the likes), will that still be in spec or will I get denied. At some point we have to change the tires and the idea that we will be forced to buy the exact same tire over and over seems a bit off.

 

[broncorik]

I wanted to let everyone know what my dealership experience was like at my local Ford dealership.

At 5500k miles I noticed grease on my driver side LCA during an oil change.

I quickly realized it was CV boot grease. I brought the bronco into the dealership at that time. They confirmed that this was the case and they said that it was a known issue that occasionally the heat press process used to bind the rubber boot to the shaft can fail. The technician said he “he knew what it was as soon as he saw it”.

They take pics and send them to the person that makes these decisions because their service manager is not in that day. This other person looks at the pics, approves the CV replacement under warranty and away we go. Parts ordered and arrived. Repair day arrives.

I’m told after the fact that the service manager was annoyed because he would not have approved it if he wa at here because of my spacers and 37s.

Note- my CVs are have perfect geometry. This should have been a clearly warrantied repair.

For funsies, I go to pick it up and as I’m pulling away I here the steering linkage clunking. Nope. Back right up to the service bay and shut her down again.

It was the tie rod nut. Clearly it was not tightened or torqued correctly. The tech had match marked it like it was a wrap but the nut was loose by 4 THREADS on the bolt relative to the opposing side (visually easy to compare).

Nope tech insists he did his job and that this is because of a single use nut failure. I am now waiting for 4 more days while they fly in a nut from out of state.

Great.

So I came out on top but just be aware.

How dId you get good alignment on your CVs with 37s and a spacer? Even the factory OEM Sasquatch set up with 35s leaves the CV joint angle a little too steep for my taste. How many degrees is yours?

 

[Ducati1098]

How dId you get good alignment on your CVs with 37s and a spacer? Even the factory OEM Sasquatch set up with 35s leaves the CV joint angle a little too steep for my taste. How many degrees is yours?

Wheel spacer, not spacer lift.

 

[broncorik]

Wheel spacer, not spacer lift.

The OP indicated that he has ideal CV geometry... which to my knowledge is impossible to obtain on our specific front end setups especially when it comes to a lift. I think we get as close as possible to the best we can with what we have...horizontal would be "ideal" ( but obviously not practical for wheeling and lifts. A lot of us have flogged our Sasquatch setups with 35s pretty hard with no failures yet to date, but it seems as though as soon as someone lifts high enough to clear 37s than that's when the headaches begin. I thought the OP meant spring spacer because he said he had 37s and I wasn't aware that they would clear without some form of lift.

 

[NJNMDoc]

The OP indicated that he has ideal CV geometry... which to my knowledge is impossible to obtain on our specific front end setups especially when it comes to a lift. I think we get as close as possible to the best we can with what we have...horizontal would be "ideal" ( but obviously not practical for wheeling and lifts. A lot of us have flogged our Sasquatch setups with 35s pretty hard with no failures yet to date, but it seems as though as soon as someone lifts high enough to clear 37s than that's when the headaches begin. I thought the OP meant spring spacer because he said he had 37s and I wasn't aware that they would clear without some form of lift.

Ya, so that’s not really accurate.

It’s tempting to think it’s the case that you throw some 37s or a lift on and -BOOM- Bobs your uncle- CV issues are destined to ensue. But that not true.

To correct a few details: I never said ‘ideal’ I just said I suspected my CV angles were within tolerance. As in ‘not so distorted from the factory as to cause the boot to separate from the shaft after 2500 miles of driving with zero off-roading’ (I was waiting for skids- which took two months, but I now have installed ! Went RCI for those wondering).

And yes I have a RPG perch collar lift. That is different than a spacer lift. It increases preload spring compression from the bottom resulting in about 2” of lift, rather than elongating the shock assembly by stuffing a spacer between the shock mount and the shock.

In any event, the idiosyncratic elements of my particular setup aren’t actually that helpful.

There are instances of these same issues on completely stock Broncos:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/broken-cv-boots.70322/

As well as others with mods:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/leak-not-sure-what-it-is.76979/#post-1980224

And many more if you search.

The reason I created this post was just to point out that it’s an issue. It’s variable. I don’t think it actually has to do with anything other than the CV boot adhesion process. And that if you have mods be prepared to be denied. Wrongfully in my opinion.

This particular failure doesn’t look like a typical failed torn boot. It’s happening with very low mileage vehicles that have not been wheeled at all.

The fact that there are those that HAVE wheeled theirs hard stock and haven’t had failed CVs doesn’t really add much here. Good for them and their apparently non-defective CV boots- that’s how they SHOULD work.

And for the record there are numerous threads on how to fit 37s on a stock SAS without a lift. I’m not going to link them here, but they’re not hard to find if you use the search function.

 

[broncorik]

Ya, so that’s not really accurate.

It’s tempting to think it’s the case that you throw some 37s or a lift on and -BOOM- Bobs your uncle- CV issues are destined to ensue. But that not true.

To correct a few details: I never said ‘ideal’ I just said I suspected my CV angles were within tolerance. As in ‘not so distorted from the factory as to cause the boot to separate from the shaft after 2500 miles of driving with zero off-roading’ (I was waiting for skids- which took two months, but I now have installed ! Went RCI for those wondering).

And yes I have a RPG perch collar lift. That is different than a spacer lift. It increases preload spring compression from the bottom resulting in about 2” of lift, rather than elongating the shock assembly by stuffing a spacer between the shock mount and the shock.

In any event, the idiosyncratic elements of my particular setup aren’t actually that helpful.

There are instances of these same issues on completely stock Broncos:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/broken-cv-boots.70322/

As well as others with mods:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/leak-not-sure-what-it-is.76979/#post-1980224

And many more if you search.

The reason I created this post was just to point out that it’s an issue. It’s variable. I don’t think it actually has to do with anything other than the CV boot adhesion process. And that if you have mods be prepared to be denied. Wrongfully in my opinion.

This particular failure doesn’t look like a typical failed torn boot. It’s happening with very low mileage vehicles that have not been wheeled at all.

The fact that there are those that HAVE wheeled theirs hard stock and haven’t had failed CVs doesn’t really add much here. Good for them and their apparently non-defective CV boots- that’s how they SHOULD work.

And for the record there are numerous threads on how to fit 37s on a stock SAS without a lift. I’m not going to link them here, but they’re not hard to find if you use the search function.

Sorry...you did not say ideal...you said "perfect," and I was asking what angle that might be. I could be way off in my line of thinking but I believe any method that is used to increase the distance from the top of the tire to the fender lip (whether it is a lower cost spacer or a more expensive spring assembly) will result in more of a downward angle on the axle shaft (and an increase in the CV angle). I believe the RPG perch collar lifts the front about 2.25 inches, and in that range on my 4Runner with IFS the recommendation was a diff drop of 1 inch to try and reduce the CV angles. Not a Bronco, but similar concept. I think 37s would be cool, but I personally would not go that route because I feel like the axle angle is a tad steep already even with OEM geometry. I know I can cut off frame horns and poke tires way out to try and avoid scrub without adding any lift, but I prefer to keep as much travel as possible. Hopefully your setup works like a charm, and it would be fantastic if any dealer would repair whatever may break under warranty for all of us. Do you happen to know what angle your axles are? I imagine Ford may have specs with a range someplace in their fine print and if that angle is out of spec they can use that in their quest to deny a claim.

 

[NJNMDoc]

Sorry...you did not say ideal...you said "perfect," and I was asking what angle that might be. I could be way off in my line of thinking but I believe any method that is used to increase the distance from the top of the tire to the fender lip (whether it is a lower cost spacer or a more expensive spring assembly) will result in more of a downward angle on the axle shaft (and an increase in the CV angle). I believe the RPG perch collar lifts the front about 2.25 inches, and in that range on my 4Runner with IFS the recommendation was a diff drop of 1 inch to try and reduce the CV angles. Not a Bronco, but similar concept. I think 37s would be cool, but I personally would not go that route because I feel like the axle angle is a tad steep already even with OEM geometry. I know I can cut off frame horns and poke tires way out to try and avoid scrub without adding any lift, but I prefer to keep as much travel as possible. Hopefully your setup works like a charm, and it would be fantastic if any dealer would repair whatever may break under warranty for all of us. Do you happen to know what angle your axles are? I imagine Ford may have specs with a range someplace in their fine print and if that angle is out of spec they can use that in their quest to deny a claim.

Pretty much all of these points are addressed earlier in the thread. I’ll let you go read them there. Sometimes things fail due to modifications. Sometimes things fail because they are defective. The two can be easily conflated, particularly when it’s to the dealer’s advantage. Good luck.

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