why are we blaming Ford and not the dealers?

[PowPow]

You keep insinuating this but it doesn't make any sense. Let me preface this by saying my reservation is not with one of these dealers who offered a great deal, so I have no skin in this game. But I would assume that Ford would know which dealer these orders are coming from, right? And at ANY point during that time period, they could contacted either those dealers or the customers to tell them about the allocation process, or that there might be a delay in receiving their Bronco. And yet, Ford did NONE of that. They made a change at the last minute. I won't speculate what their motivation was for that decision, but that decision has unfairly affected a lot of people who did nothing wrong, and in fact followed the very rules that Ford themselves set. And the dealers that offered these great deals did nothing wrong, and in fact followed the very rules that Ford themselves set. Ford, and only Ford, is to blame for this situation.

While I don't totally disagree with that statement. My rebuttal is that Ford has over 3000 dealers to deal with. These dealers have ONE supplier. Plus it's not Ford's problem how you want to run your business. While I think it should be, bc dealers are ultimately brand ambassadors, we all know how the model works. It's flawed.

To meet demand!? Ford took the reservations!!! You are way off.

And passed them onto the dealerships. Your reservation wasn't with Ford. It was with the dealership. C'mon man. Everyone knows that by now. You placed your order with the dealer, not Ford.

I'm not here going to deny, the way they set up the system is flawed. And I'm not saying Ford isn't wrong on some aspects. I'm just not sure why more people aren't bothered with the dealers? I'll say it again, they own the relationship with Ford. Not us. They know how allocations work and how Ford delivers cars, etc... we don't. It's their business. I'd like to think they understand how it works.

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[Bison]

I know no one cares at this point, but Ford changes allocation formulas for dealers all the time. Just because the 2021 formula differed from the 2022 formula doesn't mean they did anything they've never done. They just recently changed allocation to favor retail orders over stock orders, meaning they were giving additional allocation to dealers who could get more retail orders. This wasn't anything complained about, it was just a temporary change in the normal formula. I know most people here don't know the inner workings of Ford and their processes, but they do this all the time to dealers.

Most people don’t know, but I doubt ford has made changes with this many reservations before. They should have known it was going to cause problems.

 

[PowPow]

I disagree with a lot of your post. I am not going to get into it because it’s like talking to a brick wall. You are unwilling to listen so there is no point to continue a conversation. You state things as if there are facts but give nothing to back them up. Show me where 98% of the people are getting there Broncos in 2022 or did you just make that up?

Yes, I made it up. SWAG.

And I'm very open to listening. I fairly certain I have said many times over Ford isn't squeaky clean here. They've made plenty of missteps.

But how are we ok with the dealers that didn't do their jobs correctly? That part confuses me. How are people just letting them slide?

I know no one cares at this point, but Ford changes allocation formulas for dealers all the time. Just because the 2021 formula differed from the 2022 formula doesn't mean they did anything they've never done. They just recently changed allocation to favor retail orders over stock orders, meaning they were giving additional allocation to dealers who could get more retail orders. This wasn't anything complained about, it was just a temporary change in the normal formula. I know most people here don't know the inner workings of Ford and their processes, but they do this all the time to dealers.

Yes, I was going to say something similar to this. The dealers own the relationship with Ford and are having or have had conversations that we aren't privy to. I'm willing to bet allocations aren't something new. Why did these dealerships think allocations wouldn't matter? I guess that's the question. Did they ask Ford if allocations would matter? Or did they just assume they woulnd't? And my point is, as a business owner, who understands their business, isn't that something you should clarify before promoting your business model? And now a lot of people are upset. They were mislead.

 

[goodnterribles]

While I don't totally disagree with that statement. My rebuttal is that Ford has over 3000 dealers to deal with. These dealers have ONE supplier. Plus it's not Ford's problem how you want to run your business. While I think it should be, bc dealers are ultimately brand ambassadors, we all know how the model works. It's flawed.

And passed them onto the dealerships. Your reservation wasn't with Ford. It was with the dealership. C'mon man. Everyone knows that by now. You placed your order with the dealer, not Ford.

I'm not here going to deny, the way they set up the system is flawed. And I'm not saying Ford isn't wrong on some aspects. I'm just not sure why more people aren't bothered with the dealers? I'll say it again, they own the relationship with Ford. Not us. They know how allocations work and how Ford delivers cars, etc... we don't. It's their business. I'd like to think they understand how it works.

The bolded is irrelevant though. If they want to change it going forward, by all means do that to appease your other dealers. But you need to honor the orders that have already been made. If they didn't like what those dealers were doing, Ford should have done something about it at the time. To make that decision now is wrong on so many levels. And maybe Ford should have run some more analysis to anticipate that something like this could happen with the rules that they set up.

 

[goodnterribles]

Yes, I made it up. SWAG.

And I'm very open to listening. I fairly certain I have said many times over Ford isn't squeaky clean here. They've made plenty of missteps.

But how are we ok with the dealers that didn't do their jobs correctly? That part confuses me. How are people just letting them slide?

Yes, I was going to say something similar to this. The dealers own the relationship with Ford and are having or have had conversations that we aren't privy to. I'm willing to bet allocations aren't something new. Why did these dealerships think allocations wouldn't matter? I guess that's the question. Did they ask Ford if allocations would matter? Or did they just assume they woulnd't? And my point is, as a business owner, who understands their business, isn't that something you should clarify before promoting your business model? And now a lot of people are upset. They were mislead.

Which dealers didn't do their jobs correctly?

 

[Drex]

I agree, they are just stiring the shit pot and hoping to leave without having to lick the spoon.

One last try on the timeline;

Ford had announced a fantastic new Breakfast Burrito in July 2020. You have to pay $100 to prove you are serious about ordering one, they promise it is a first come first serve deal (we shall eliminate the standard disclaimer about logisitics and commodities, allocations do not exist as part of the promised formula yet). People line up like it is a new Iphone, months before they know they can order it with the promise they can pick it up at any franchise they like. After waiting for the December promise of letting folks order for a Spring delivery. Ford announces that they have unilaterally decided that ordering is delayed and there is no longer one big line, it will be a line at each dealer whom Ford will use a secret formula to decide in what order and how many at each dealer will get at a time, but no worries, even though there might be a guy 15000 slots behind you that gets the same order as you will make months before you, Ford has 'reasons'. People are unhappy, but since Ford still maintains they will all get built before dealer stock, it is still the fastest way to get this custom breakfast burrito. Everyone orders (later than promised) in March. Ford then decides to give each dealer one or two Burritos, which ends up being about 8% of all production, then they give them the ability to cut someone for any reason they like to the front of their individual line as well. Ford is later forced to admit that the cheese that nearly 80% of the people ordered was vaporware and that Ford is the actual victim here, it is costing them money. So they urge you to go without cheese on the hope you might get it sooner. Oh yeah, they are only sporadically going to get green peppers, tomatoes, and bacon, the will let you know on a month by month basis.

Because Ford is a horrible victim of the unscrupulous suppliers for all the stuff Ford cannot get at the price they want, they tell folks that some people who just got in line might be getting stuff sooner because they ordered a plain burrito with nothing on it, also because of the allocations, they might get it sooner than some people who are 92000 places further up in the original promised line, but the secret dealer serving list criteria deems them less important, 'cause reasons.

Ford finds out that they cannot get all the wonderful optional toppings they frst promised in 2020 in year two of a pandemic (apparently it was totally unexpected news to them this was going on) and the tell the folks in the 3100 different lines that they are changing the allocations so that some franchises get way more burritos of all shapes and flavors then they have orders, while others with people, whom signed up originally for the single line, grumbled but stayed put in the 3100 new lines because the maximum promised wait (due to well know production capabilities and continued promises of being built before stock orders, with the aforementioned minor deviations) was likely only six months further out have to literally wait 4 years.

Now they find out that while people can come in off the street in 2022 at the dealers Ford deems more deserving of selling these delicious burritos and buy all they want, the folks who were promised a line, then 3100 lines, then no line but you will be built before Joe Blow off the street can buy his, are told they will be waiting literally years to get their promised breakfast.

The dealers all reacted to the original and then continually changing rules, as did the final consumers, but there is no question it is Ford who decided to implement each and every change, for 'reasons'.

So yeah, Folks who were stupid enough to believe Ford should have known that they would have all the rules change, literally every promise made about the benefits of a reservation is either invalid or extremely weakened and that they should have intuitively known the secret formulas and the proprietary data from each dealer, ignored what Ford actually said, and order at Ford's preferred dealer instead of their own.

Ford's solution to the problems they 100% created is for us to find a shorter line, even if it is 900 or 1500 miles away and we are not allowed to know how many people are in it currently. It is not a myth that the rules and disclaimers on Ford's website have changed over time, but Ford never notified us directly of any changes at order time, Hell, they haven't notified us of any changes for this order time either. My reservation is used up into an order, why would I go back and see if the reservations policy after I already used mine to order are different. I maintain that Ford has no legal leg to stand on for changes to reservations after 3/19 for reservations converted to orders. I paid $100 for a specific set of rules, that I accepted even with changes, until it converted to an order. My transaction with Ford was done at that point. I refuse to believe they can unilaterally and retroactively change the terms of that transaction after said completion.

 

[gammaguybronco]

I know no one cares at this point, but Ford changes allocation formulas for dealers all the time. Just because the 2021 formula differed from the 2022 formula doesn't mean they did anything they've never done. They just recently changed allocation to favor retail orders over stock orders, meaning they were giving additional allocation to dealers who could get more retail orders. This wasn't anything complained about, it was just a temporary change in the normal formula. I know most people here don't know the inner workings of Ford and their processes, but they do this all the time to dealers.

I'm sure it happens all the time, but have they ever changed it when they have 130,000 - 200,000 reservations for a vehicle (I don't know the exact number)? Which ultimately affects how the reservation system rolls out. That and due to supply issues some of the reservation holders have already been waiting for over a year. It seems to me to be in poor taste to change the formula for that particular vehicle when you still have that many people waiting. Handle the reservation holders in whatever particular order you'd like, then change the allocation formula however you please.

 

[CPL_Rabbit]

Your comment is speculation. Which is exactly what I said. So, your comment supports my comment.

Here:
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...ons-ordering-dates-build-date-estimates.5793/

Dealer allocation will depend on a retailer's market size, previous SUV sales performance, the number of reservations tied to their store and competitive off-road registrations in their market, LaNeve said.

"We're really trying to have an equitable and fair process for allocating to dealers," LaNeve said. "We have dealers that will get hundreds of Broncos allocated to them in 2021 and you go from there. Bigger dealers with lots of reservations will generate the most allocation, but we're going to try and take care of every dealer who has reservations."

The allocation formula has changed to benefit dealers that sold models other than Bronco to benefit dealers in larger markets. That's not speculation. They did not expect a smaller dealer to get more reservations. So, they changed it to fit what they wanted. The number of allocations for Granger has already proven to be smaller than last year. They have the numbers for the beginning of '22 production.

 

[Tonka Bronka]

While I don't totally disagree with that statement. My rebuttal is that Ford has over 3000 dealers to deal with. These dealers have ONE supplier. Plus it's not Ford's problem how you want to run your business. While I think it should be, bc dealers are ultimately brand ambassadors, we all know how the model works. It's flawed.

And passed them onto the dealerships. Your reservation wasn't with Ford. It was with the dealership. C'mon man. Everyone knows that by now. You placed your order with the dealer, not Ford.

I'm not here going to deny, the way they set up the system is flawed. And I'm not saying Ford isn't wrong on some aspects. I'm just not sure why more people aren't bothered with the dealers? I'll say it again, they own the relationship with Ford. Not us. They know how allocations work and how Ford delivers cars, etc... we don't. It's their business. I'd like to think they understand how it works.

I called FORD to make my reservation, NOT the dealer. I placed my order with the dealer. My local dealer, that you say I should have used, did not know their ass from a whole in the ground. Luckily I could see this and moved to an awesome dealer. People ARE bothered by the BAD dealers.

 

[Drex]

And passed them onto the dealerships. Your reservation wasn't with Ford. It was with the dealership. C'mon man. Everyone knows that by now. You placed your order with the dealer, not Ford.

No. Reservations were purchased from Ford, once they were transferred into orders, they no longer belonged to you. The fact that Ford decided to turn over the money to the dealers is irrelevant as they still maintained the guarantee that Ford would return the funds should you not use the reservation (and they did for people switching dealers)

Reservations bought from Ford. Orders made through dealers, very important distinction.

 

[cowman]

The bolded is irrelevant though. If they want to change it going forward, by all means do that to appease your other dealers. But you need to honor the orders that have already been made. If they didn't like what those dealers were doing, Ford should have done something about it at the time. To make that decision now is wrong on so many levels. And maybe Ford should have run some more analysis to anticipate that something like this could happen with the rules that they set up.

When was the right time for Ford to make changes... in the middle of 2022 or before the 2022 order dates???

 

[PowPow]

To make that decision now is wrong on so many levels.

what decision? does anyone know that Ford came out and said allocations don't matter and won't matter? or did people just assume that?

Ford obviously didn't foresee this happening. So they probably didn't explicitly say one way or the other. And that's on them for not being clear. They probably figured it would organically fall where it usually falls. (big dealers would have a lot of reservations, small would have a small amount)

But I still stand by the dealership should've checked with Ford on that. Shouldn't go processing orders on an assumption.

Which dealers didn't do their jobs correctly?

The dealers that didn't check with their supplier (Ford) if their business model would work. If their supplier would be able to meet their expectations. They own the relationship with Ford. Not us.

 

[PowPow]

I called FORD to make my reservation, NOT the dealer. I placed my order with the dealer. My local dealer, that you say I should have used, did not know their ass from a whole in the ground. Luckily I could see this and moved to an awesome dealer. People ARE bothered by the BAD dealers.

Ford was just the go-between. That's why when you switched dealers your refund came from the dealer, not Ford. Because your reservation was with the dealer.

It was a jammed in process to try and fit their dealer model. Definitely flawed.

 

[Bison]

Yes, I made it up. SWAG.

And I'm very open to listening. I fairly certain I have said many times over Ford isn't squeaky clean here. They've made plenty of missteps.

But how are we ok with the dealers that didn't do their jobs correctly? That part confuses me. How are people just letting them slide?

I thought so. I will also need all the info that shows the dealers didn’t do their job correctly. I am sure you contacted the dealerships in question, Ford, and have done some thorough investigating. I don’t let anyone slide. If someone or company is in the wrong I will hold them accountable. I have seen no evidence of wrong doings as of yet. Ford has been very misleading so I don’t trust them. Granger has been honest and upfront so there is no need to not trust them. I am very cautious about dealers as I have spent a good 10 years around them. During those 10 years I only got along with 1 car salesman. He is now one of the higher ups and is honest and fair. He does not work at Ford which is a shame.

 

[PowPow]

No. Reservations were purchased from Ford, once they were transferred into orders, they no longer belonged to you. The fact that Ford decided to turn over the money to the dealers is irrelevant as they still maintained the guarantee that Ford would return the funds should you not use the reservation (and they did for people switching dealers)

Reservations bought from Ford. Orders made through dealers, very important distinction.

Right and when I switched dealers, my refund came from the dealer... not Ford. My reservation was made on a system built by Ford that passed it onto the dealer of my choice.

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