Engine knock perhaps - 2.3L ?

[Lil Red Broncette]

... but the pinging specifically is irritating because I know that it's rough on the pistons/connecting rods/etc (even though the sound itself is pretty subtle). I guess there is some possibility that the cause is something different, but it sure fits the profile

Doubly irritating as one can bet that fuel economy, performance and emissions all suffer when it does this. I am coming to the conclusion that this is "normal" and it is more just because they don't care because they don't need to meet emissions and economy while engine is warming up.

I don't do engine controls, but do real time software control so have a pretty good idea how this stuff gets written. Here is how I see it. Pandemic hits and the long time engineer(s) who started when it was electromechanical controls and knew how it works inside and out, who later went into software control as technology advanced, decides it is great time to retire. This leaves the young engineer who only knew this from a software basis, who really don't comprehend all the interactions in an intuitive sense, and only half listened to that old geezer who tried to pass on their experience. The young engineer gets it working and meeting all the test requirements, so calls it good enough. The engineer never polishes it to work well even during those times best performance isn't strictly required. Management accepts the engineer's word, maybe even suggests "okay we run with this now we can always upgrade it later" and later never happens.

To your last point, I believe I said it elsewhere in this thread that I've had engines do the same thing when advanced too far like you said with the V8.

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[Ackerlw]

Resurrecting this… I have a 23 Everglades and I am experiencing the same issue. It’s 100% pre-ignition in low to moderate load at low to mid rpm. I used to build, race, tune turbo 4 cylinders, there’s no mistaking that sound. As somebody suggested the ecu is not retarding timing when this occurs.
Has anybody made any progress in getting Ford to address this?
Has anybody tried the Ford Performance tune?

 

[pvaska]

I went to 3 different dealers for this and even got Ford involved via this forum - the dealers did their best, heard the sound (yet stopped short of calling it knock), and all said they could not do anything since there are no codes or anything to point to that is wrong or how to fix it. I asked them to reset the PCM as a last resort but they said they couldn't even do that without something specific being wrong. I would reset PCM myself but don't want to take risk of voiding my warranty. I also asked the Ford contact if I could speak to an engineer about how the timing is supposed to work, and apparently that could not be arranged. I may get access to a more advanced code reader to see if I can figure out more, but it's tough because I don't really know how things are supposed to work (they seem to have changed the way the knock sensors work, compared to websites out there on this engine). So I guess we're stuck with it?

 

[Nick72]

Resurrecting this… I have a 23 Everglades and I am experiencing the same issue. It’s 100% pre-ignition in low to moderate load at low to mid rpm. I used to build, race, tune turbo 4 cylinders, there’s no mistaking that sound. As somebody suggested the ecu is not retarding timing when this occurs.
Has anybody made any progress in getting Ford to address this?
Has anybody tried the Ford Performance tune?

Took mine to the dealer and they said it's normal. I've never had a car where this is normal.

 

[Area51BS]

I have this same issue when drivetrain is cold. Not weather related. Only run 93. Only last first few minutes unless very easy on pedal for first mile.

 

[userdude]

I noticed this when I took front two top panels off last weekend. Pulling out of my garage, windows down, someone said like marbles in a can, I'd say if they were spun around in the can kinda fast. Also seems to happen when cold but don't seem to hear it later (I live in TX, it's been in the 60's overnight). I use 93/91 octane last 5k miles, 9k miles overall. Hopefully not a wear issue.

 

[Boreal]

Have any of you who are experiencing this been able to record a video/audio clip with the “Knock/LSPI”? Care to share?

 

[Lil Red Broncette]

I went to 3 different dealers for this and even got Ford involved via this forum - the dealers did their best, heard the sound (yet stopped short of calling it knock), and all said they could not do anything since there are no codes or anything to point to that is wrong or how to fix it. I asked them to reset the PCM as a last resort but they said they couldn't even do that without something specific being wrong. I would reset PCM myself but don't want to take risk of voiding my warranty. I also asked the Ford contact if I could speak to an engineer about how the timing is supposed to work, and apparently that could not be arranged. I may get access to a more advanced code reader to see if I can figure out more, but it's tough because I don't really know how things are supposed to work (they seem to have changed the way the knock sensors work, compared to websites out there on this engine). So I guess we're stuck with it?

I was told this was normal. More recently I came across information on direct injection that says this sort of problem happens at cold.

 

[pvaska]

I was told this was normal. More recently I came across information on direct injection that says this sort of problem happens at cold.

Thanks, could you share this information?
Also, I tried recording the sound on my iPhone but very hard to hear over normal engine sound

 

[Lil Red Broncette]

Thanks, could you share this information?
Also, I tried recording the sound on my iPhone but very hard to hear over normal engine sound

Here is the link to the video about direct injection.

 

[pvaska]

Here is the link to the video about direct injection.

Thanks, interesting video. If our problem is indeed true pre-ignition (ignition before spark), then there might be nothing we can do. But wouldn't the knock occur at all engine temperatures, not only when cold? I think it is still likely that the problem is that ignition timing is too advanced. Especially since the knock sensors do not record anything when I hear it (I pulled the knock counts and they do not increase, so engine doesn't try to retard timing) and because switching from 87 to 93 octane did not help (which should reduce pre-ignition).

 

[MC1313]

30 years in the automotive business (on the service and parts side) 17 years as a factory rep. And I can tell you that there is clearly a “pre detonation” (pinging noise) on my 2.3 brand new Bronco.
it happens when started cold (not out side ambient cold) just cold engine. It pings on acceleration (engine load) and will do this for the first 12-15 minutes of driving. Understanding what this does to an engine is concerning because it will take time to produce a failure of an engine but will eventually fail. I would hope that Ford is working in a fix because I see a large “Recall/customer reimbursement” for premature engine failures if they don’t address this condition.

 

[Reaper23]

Have any of you who are experiencing this been able to record a video/audio clip with the “Knock/LSPI”? Care to share?

 

[Ford Motor Company]

I have this same issue when drivetrain is cold. Not weather related. Only run 93. Only last first few minutes unless very easy on pedal for first mile.

Hi there! Can you send us a private message with your VIN and dealer info so I can look into this concern? Thanks!

 

[Lil Red Broncette]

I can't really tell if it is there. In the middle bit there is a spot where it could be and I thought I heard a couple more clearly at one point but on re-plays it didn't seem as distinct. I haven't been able to capture the sound I receive.

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