Sponsored

flip

Badlands
Well-Known Member
Base Sponsor (Level 1)
First Name
Phil
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Threads
41
Messages
4,312
Reaction score
14,288
Location
IN
Website
www.ruxerparts.com
Vehicle(s)
Fords
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
I have seen this a few different times on the forum and wanted to give you Ford's position on "flushes" as well as my opinion on them being in this business for over two decades and as a former technician.

What is a "flush"? It depends on the context it's used. Flush and change are sometimes used interchangeably like, "your transmission fluid needs to be flushed", "your cooling system needs to be flushed", or "your brake fluid needs to be flushed". The intervals for these three fluid services are in your bronco owners manual and have specific mileage or time ranges depending on if you're going by the normal or special operating condition path in your manual.

Since transmissions do not have drain plugs on the converters, dropping the pan will only get you about 1/3 of the fluid changed which isn't worth the time doing which is why most places us a flushing machine. It hooks up to the transmission cooler lines, the tech will put 12-14 quarts of new fluid into one tank which will then be pumped into the transmission, via the transmissions pump, while old fluid is being pumped out. In this case, the only thing going in or out is transmission fluid, no chemicals. There are a bunch of companies that spiff service managers and techs to use a flush product (bottle of snake oil) that is supposed to protect and clean the transmissions guts better than just fluid alone. Whatever.

They also make a machine to flush cooling systems that works the same way but IMO, the only good way to flush a cooling system is to pull hoses and back flush using the good ole garden hose. If you don't do it this way, how do you forward or back flush the heater core, radiator, trans cooler, overflow bottle or block. Again, no "special" chemicals or additives needed. Less is more.

A brake fluid flush is the same, old fluid out, new in. Ford didn't start adding these to normal vehicles until the last couple of years, Toyota and others have been doing it forever.

The big one I've seen lately is the intake "flush". There is no where in the workshop manual or owners manual that even vaguely mentions this unless there is a very specific problem that develops that or part of a directed repair. These "flushes" are, IMO, snake oil, overpriced, not needed but are a big money maker for the dealer, advisor or tech recommending them. It usually involves dumping a bottle of something in the tank to "clean the injectors and lines" as well as a foam/fog/liquid that's sucked in through a vacuum like on the intake.

Back in the day when we suspected carbon on the pistons or some other crap, we'd use Ford carb cleaner or Seafoam to try to get rid of spark knock as a near last resort. Modern engines using quality gasoline do not have these issues so this hasn't been a thing since the '90's. While these "flushes" may not be detrimental to the vehicle, I've not seen any evidence that it has any near or long term benefits beside service department profitability.

The narrow scope for chemical or flushes. The only two chemicals we've used in any capacity are Wynn's torque converter shudder guard or Chevron Techron. Shudder guard was mainly used for vehicles that were pre Mercon V and had a bad shudder, chatter from the torque converter due to lack of maintenance. We would change fluid and dump a bottle in as a last resort prior to yanking the trans. It worked about 50% of the time and heavily dependent on if it was caught early or was in the later stages before total failure. Chevron Techron was dumped in fuel tanks, also a last resort option when fuel gauges started messing up. This was usually due to fuel that had high too much sulphur which would bind to the rheostat on the sending unit resulting in a bad reading. Again, a couple tanks of "good" fuel and couple of bottles of Techron and it either fixed it or the tank was coming out and new sending unit going in.

We've had all the BG, Wynn's and other sales people in to demonstrate their stuff so it's not like I'm coming from a place of ignorance. Even with the direct pay "incentive" from the BG guy, my techs didn't want anything to do with them. They don't believe in them, I don't believe in them and sure as hell won't look one of my customers in the eyes and lie to them. Nope, ain't gonna do it.

I'm not going to crap on the dealer's that bought into this scam but they know better and have seen what Ford's position is on this matter. If you're an owner and feel there's a benefit to doing them or have done in the past, that's your call. My point is to put some info out there for everyone that's getting hit up in the service drive and wondering why they're wanting you to spend $199.00+ for something not on Ford's maintenance list. Ultimately you have to decide if there's value in the product or service and you trust the person that's telling you that it's "needed" or "due". There are a lot of dealers and independents that push these services but IMO, it's just an upsell scam. Not that they aren't doing the work or using the product, it's just not something required to keep your vehicle running correctly. Am I against dumping in a bottle of Techron in your tank once a year, no. Do I think it's necessary? No.

For those that want to stick to OE recommendations, I've attached Ford's position statement on flushes and non approved additives or chemicals. I hope by reading this you feel better informed when you, your spouse, child or family member is having service performed and is hit up about needing a "flush" or "cleaning". If it's not in the book and you don't have a specific running issues a flush/cleaning will fix, it's probably not needed.
Sponsored

 

Attachments

Ducati1098

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
3,730
Reaction score
7,436
Location
Midwest
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Wildtrak, 2012 Ford Fusion
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
Clubs
 
This should be a sticky thread.
Great information!

Edit: looks like it is now, good!
 

RagnarKon

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Bryan
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Threads
35
Messages
3,790
Reaction score
9,620
Location
New England
Vehicle(s)
Ford Bronco, Escape, Focus
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
What is this intake flush you speak of?? Basically flushing the high pressure fuel lines? First I've heard of this.

---

Anyway, I am not in the automotive industry, so I can't claim to be an expert. My father was an engineer for Ford and I've stolen most of my knowledge from him simply by pestering him with questions while I was a teen.

He's always said that chemical flushes/additives are completely unnecessary. The only time it becomes necessary is when you have deferred maintenance on your vehicle for too long, and at that point it's usually too late and you're just applying a band-aid.

He also said it is best to remove as much of the old fluid as you can and replace it with fresh fluid. Unfortunately in today's day in age that often requires fluid exchange equipment (especially with transmissions). But the advice I got seems to largely match what @flip said above, so I'll keep going down that path.

Which reminds me... need to see if the manual trans has cooling lines going up front of not. Pretty sure it doesn't but haven't really looked at it.
 

projectbadlands

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
May 26, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
278
Reaction score
457
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicle(s)
2018 Colorado ZR2
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
I have seen this a few different times on the forum and wanted to give you Ford's position on "flushes" as well as my opinion on them being in this business for over two decades and as a former technician.

What is a "flush"? It depends on the context it's used. Flush and change are sometimes used interchangeably like, "your transmission fluid needs to be flushed", "your cooling system needs to be flushed", or "your brake fluid needs to be flushed". The intervals for these three fluid services are in your bronco owners manual and have specific mileage or time ranges depending on if you're going by the normal or special operating condition path in your manual.

Since transmissions do not have drain plugs on the converters, dropping the pan will only get you about 1/3 of the fluid changed which isn't worth the time doing which is why most places us a flushing machine. It hooks up to the transmission cooler lines, the tech will put 12-14 quarts of new fluid into one tank which will then be pumped into the transmission, via the transmissions pump, while old fluid is being pumped out. In this case, the only thing going in or out is transmission fluid, no chemicals. There are a bunch of companies that spiff service managers and techs to use a flush product (bottle of snake oil) that is supposed to protect and clean the transmissions guts better than just fluid alone. Whatever.

They also make a machine to flush cooling systems that works the same way but IMO, the only good way to flush a cooling system is to pull hoses and back flush using the good ole garden hose. If you don't do it this way, how do you forward or back flush the heater core, radiator, trans cooler, overflow bottle or block. Again, no "special" chemicals or additives needed. Less is more.

A brake fluid flush is the same, old fluid out, new in. Ford didn't start adding these to normal vehicles until the last couple of years, Toyota and others have been doing it forever.

The big one I've seen lately is the intake "flush". There is no where in the workshop manual or owners manual that even vaguely mentions this unless there is a very specific problem that develops that or part of a directed repair. These "flushes" are, IMO, snake oil, overpriced, not needed but are a big money maker for the dealer, advisor or tech recommending them. It usually involves dumping a bottle of something in the tank to "clean the injectors and lines" as well as a foam/fog/liquid that's sucked in through a vacuum like on the intake.

Back in the day when we suspected carbon on the pistons or some other crap, we'd use Ford carb cleaner or Seafoam to try to get rid of spark knock as a near last resort. Modern engines using quality gasoline do not have these issues so this hasn't been a thing since the '90's. While these "flushes" may not be detrimental to the vehicle, I've not seen any evidence that it has any near or long term benefits beside service department profitability.

The narrow scope for chemical or flushes. The only two chemicals we've used in any capacity are Wynn's torque converter shudder guard or Chevron Techron. Shudder guard was mainly used for vehicles that were pre Mercon V and had a bad shudder, chatter from the torque converter due to lack of maintenance. We would change fluid and dump a bottle in as a last resort prior to yanking the trans. It worked about 50% of the time and heavily dependent on if it was caught early or was in the later stages before total failure. Chevron Techron was dumped in fuel tanks, also a last resort option when fuel gauges started messing up. This was usually due to fuel that had high too much sulphur which would bind to the rheostat on the sending unit resulting in a bad reading. Again, a couple tanks of "good" fuel and couple of bottles of Techron and it either fixed it or the tank was coming out and new sending unit going in.

We've had all the BG, Wynn's and other sales people in to demonstrate their stuff so it's not like I'm coming from a place of ignorance. Even with the direct pay "incentive" from the BG guy, my techs didn't want anything to do with them. They don't believe in them, I don't believe in them and sure as hell won't look one of my customers in the eyes and lie to them. Nope, ain't gonna do it.

I'm not going to crap on the dealer's that bought into this scam but they know better and have seen what Ford's position is on this matter. If you're an owner and feel there's a benefit to doing them or have done in the past, that's your call. My point is to put some info out there for everyone that's getting hit up in the service drive and wondering why they're wanting you to spend $199.00+ for something not on Ford's maintenance list. Ultimately you have to decide if there's value in the product or service and you trust the person that's telling you that it's "needed" or "due". There are a lot of dealers and independents that push these services but IMO, it's just an upsell scam. Not that they aren't doing the work or using the product, it's just not something required to keep your vehicle running correctly. Am I against dumping in a bottle of Techron in your tank once a year, no. Do I think it's necessary? No.

For those that want to stick to OE recommendations, I've attached Ford's position statement on flushes and non approved additives or chemicals. I hope by reading this you feel better informed when you, your spouse, child or family member is having service performed and is hit up about needing a "flush" or "cleaning". If it's not in the book and you don't have a specific running issues a flush/cleaning will fix, it's probably not needed.
lol the attachment literally states they do not approve flushed because using 3rd party chemicals are not tested by Ford so they can not vouch for those chemicals.

But then they go on to say "but hey, we have the exact same chemicals that we make and approve so use these" lol

BTW, out of all the time that the Magnuson Moss Act get posted, THIS is the perfect time to post it. It does not protect the consumer when modifying their vehicles outside of factory specifications but it DOES protect the consumer when using 3rd party chemicals such as Mobil, Valvoline, K&N, BG, and any other brand. Ford cannot void a warranty or deny coverage simply for using 3rd party brand oils, filters, additives, chemicals, etc as long as they also meet Ford's specifications.
 

Sponsored

Ducati1098

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
3,730
Reaction score
7,436
Location
Midwest
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Wildtrak, 2012 Ford Fusion
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
Clubs
 
Which reminds me... need to see if the manual trans has cooling lines going up front of not. Pretty sure it doesn't but haven't really looked at it.
Manual trans doesn’t have any lines.
 

Ducati1098

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Threads
11
Messages
3,730
Reaction score
7,436
Location
Midwest
Vehicle(s)
2022 Bronco Wildtrak, 2012 Ford Fusion
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
Clubs
 
If I remember correctly, some of the old ZF shit I used to work on did.
Ford Bronco "Flushes" service / maintenance -- Ford's position statement and my opinion (as former technician) 1689190700077
True, I should’ve specified. I was only referring to the MT-88
 

jacknifetoaswan

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
First Name
JR
Joined
Sep 2, 2021
Threads
16
Messages
375
Reaction score
590
Location
Charleston, SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT/PP
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
The big one I've seen lately is the intake "flush". There is no where in the workshop manual or owners manual that even vaguely mentions this unless there is a very specific problem that develops that or part of a directed repair. These "flushes" are, IMO, snake oil, overpriced, not needed but are a big money maker for the dealer, advisor or tech recommending them. It usually involves dumping a bottle of something in the tank to "clean the injectors and lines" as well as a foam/fog/liquid that's sucked in through a vacuum like on the intake.

Back in the day when we suspected carbon on the pistons or some other crap, we'd use Ford carb cleaner or Seafoam to try to get rid of spark knock as a near last resort. Modern engines using quality gasoline do not have these issues so this hasn't been a thing since the '90's. While these "flushes" may not be detrimental to the vehicle, I've not seen any evidence that it has any near or long term benefits beside service department profitability.
Most of what you said, I agree with, but I wanted to comment on this portion. Because of the PCV system, oily air is recirculated into the intake tract. That brings carbon with it, which gums up intake valves and intake passages. This has been negated throughout the years by port fuel injection, which cleans the valves and passages. Direct Injection, unfortunately, moves the injectors into the combustion chamber, so fuel is no longer touching the valves, thus, that carbon builds up over time. Dual-injection vehicles, like the 2.7L and the 3.0L in the Bronco/BRaptor have the best of both worlds, but the 2.3L only has Direct Injection.

A good flogging at high RPM, from time to time, can reduce this effect, but not eliminate it. Seafoam and other intake cleaning products can help, as well. I know a lot of BMWs have a recommended walnut blasting schedule to ensure the intake valves stay clean over time.

https://blog.fcpeuro.com/how-to-carbon-clean-walnut-blast-intake-valves-mk7-gti

Also, regarding brake fluid flushes, brake fluid is hygroscopic, and hence, will absorb water, lowering the boiling point of the fluid. On a Bronco, it may be irrelevant, but on my Mustang, where I expect top performance out of the brakes, I'm happy to do it every 24 months, especially considering the fact that I live in an extremely high humidity environment.

JR
 

Sponsored

MLRey

Outer Banks
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
326
Reaction score
875
Location
Lancaster, CA
Vehicle(s)
21 Ford Ranger Lariat FX4, 18 Subaru Outback
Your Bronco Model
Outer Banks
The problem I see with a flush to exchange the transmission fluid is you're not changing the filter.
 

ChrisB351

Black Diamond
Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Threads
17
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
2,254
Location
Shreveport, LA
Vehicle(s)
2022 2dr Bronco, 2005 ZX6r, 1993 Mustang GT
Your Bronco Model
Black Diamond
Clubs
 
As a service writer I hated being told I had to sell those "services". I would never push anything beyond factory requirements but I would suggest a few things. Pretty much the only thing I disagree on is like mentioned above with direction injection cars like the 2.3 the induction service is a good practice even tho not required. I never heard of brake fluid services till I started in the industry and now that Ive been educated I try to do the same for my customers and encourage them to do the service. I also recommend doing oil changes early if the customer plans to keep the vehicle long term, ie 10yrs/150k miles. If the car says 10k do it at 7500. If it says 7500 do it at 5k. Its cheap prevention for long term damages. Modern turbos and engines are prone to failure from heat and lack of proper lubrication.
 

SubmarineNuke

Wildtrak
Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Feb 11, 2022
Threads
26
Messages
1,640
Reaction score
2,866
Location
Houston, TX
Website
twitch.tv
Vehicle(s)
Bronco Wildtrak
Your Bronco Model
Wildtrak
Clubs
 
@flip out here doing the work of a SAINT!

no matter what anyone says about you on Twitter, you’re a good guy! 😂
Sponsored

 
 


Top