Ford claims flat towing our 4 mo. old Bronco destroyed the transmission (not covering under warranty)

[delynn.gibson]

No, it doesn't. I have my own thread on this, and so many people on here are certain there was a mistake made by the owners...I did the procedure absolutely correct, had the wife verify tires were rolling at each and every stop. Arrived and the stupid thing was stuck in neutral tow.

Dealer took nearly a month to fix it, had to replace transmission, transfer case, and the transfer case motor. Could not tell me why it self destructed, nor could pull any computer data to prove/disprove it being put in neutral tow. I thank God that it was stuck in neutral tow. I lost my ass trading it in after that, but I'm back in a Jeep and again have zero issues flat towing. You're rolling the dice every time you flat tow an automatic Bronco.

I had the same thing happen as you. When stopped at campground on 3rd stop it would not disengage neutral tow. I went over it with my dealer and went through all the same troubleshooting steps you did. After no positive result they said tow it back home. When we got back and dropped it off at my home dealership they found out it was the transfer case motor that went bad and would not disengage the neutral tow. They changed the motor out in less than 1 hour and it worked as advertised with no further problems. I am just curious, we’re you given the opportunity to be able to visualize the damage to the transmission and transfer case?

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[GIdy ap]

The vehicle states it’s in flat tow mode when done correctly. Ford would warranty it if it failed in said situation. I haven’t heard one customer saying I brought the Bronco in and it states it’s in tow mode and the dealer won’t fix it. And I’ve read in this thread multiple times that flat towing is bad on gearboxes and they aren’t getting lube because the car is off. That is incorrect.

Check out my video of the vehicle showing the correct flat tow initiated display and it dragging the rear wheels. Ford refused ti cover it.

 

[Fordified1]

Check out my video of the vehicle showing the correct flat tow initiated display and it dragging the rear wheels. Ford refused ti cover it.

I mentioned your video over on the Bronco Nation forum. BTW, does your Bronco have Advanced 4WD?

 

[GIdy ap]

Yes, it has the advanced 4wd. Txfr case and rest of the drive train all checked out. The transmission was the only casualty.

 

[dgorsett]

So all of the failures that Can be identified are 4A transfer cases. If this holds to be true it is a significant data point for @Ford Motor Company to get to the bottom of the issue.

 

[Fordified1]

So all of the failures that Can be identified are 4A transfer cases. If this holds to be true it is a significant data point for @Ford Motor Company to get to the bottom of the issue.

I’d call that a smoking gun. I’d imagine Ford is well aware. Still have hopes they step up and do the right thing. I’m betting the new software update addresses the issue, but they’re denying it’s related.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

They didn’t follow directions to flat tow. And to all those that say the gearboxes aren’t lubricated in flat tow are dead wrong. It’s only the auto transmission that will get ruined if not put in flat tow mode. Transfer case and differentials are always lubricated the gears lay in the oil there is no pumps only in the auto transmission.

your incorrect, the awd transfer case does indeed have a oil pump, the gears slinging oil alone are not enough for the t-case towed.

 

[dgorsett]

I’d call that a smoking gun. I’d imagine Ford is well aware. Still have hopes they step up and do the right thing. I’m betting the new software update addresses the issue, but they’re denying it’s related.

Maybe, I can't even remember where that update info is, but I swear it specifically said 'part time 4wd'

 

[Chaddy]

Check out my video of the vehicle showing the correct flat tow initiated display and it dragging the rear wheels. Ford refused ti cover it.

That’s crazy, they should definitely take care of the problem. That’s a crazy video.

your incorrect, the awd transfer case does indeed have a oil pump, the gears slinging oil alone are not enough for the t-case towed.

If you are talking AWD you are not talking about a true transfer case. A true transfer case allows for the differentials to be disconnected from the drive line through the gears in the transfer case. There is a major difference between AWD and 4x4. The gears inside the transfer case do not spin when disconnected from the drive line in a true transfer case. AWD transfer case( center locking differential or transaxle ) can not be disconnected. With the information I’ve now seen there is definitely an issue with the system. I will not be flat towing my Bronco. Like I’ve stated I just never saw the customer say they put it in flat tow mode. Electronics in cars 🟰 big nightmares.

 

[Fordified1]

We go to see our just delivered Black Diamond today (avatar pic). I had an inkling that the transfer case problems flat towing were only associated with the Advanced system and that seems true at this point, so I specifically ordered the regular 4wd transfer case. I’ll still be nervous when flat towing and will pre-trip video every time we put it in tow mode. Typically we flat tow a vehicle about 4 times a year. If mine had the advanced system I would trailer it, or not accept it and keep the Gladiator. I would have bought a standard transmission but the wife insisted on an automatic.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

That’s crazy, they should definitely take care of the problem. That’s a crazy video.
If you are talking AWD you are not talking about a true transfer case. A true transfer case allows for the differentials to be disconnected from the drive line through the gears in the transfer case. There is a major difference between AWD and 4x4. The gears inside the transfer case do not spin when disconnected from the drive line in a true transfer case. AWD transfer case( center locking differential or transaxle ) can not be disconnected. With the information I’ve now seen there is definitely an issue with the system. I will not be flat towing my Bronco. Like I’ve stated I just never saw the customer say they put it in flat tow mode. Electronics in cars 🟰 big nightmares.

WTF this ain't the Bronco sport here buddy, the internals of this transfer case are almost identical to the rest of "true" T-cases borg Warner has been building for 20+ years, very similar to the isuzu vehicross torque in demand system, also the Hummer H3 is similar... The transfer case is just like any other one, it has high and low range, with real gears!!!
there is a "true" disconnect between splines to engage/disengage the front axle in 4H, in AWD, or 4A it uses a wet clutches pack to apply various amounts of torque to the front axle... apparently it also has a neutral (tow) position, as most other "real" transfer cases do... and in this position it also disconnects the front driveline, and the rear drive line ...or it disconnects the input from the transmission while leaving the front disconnected as well.

and it has an oil pump that is driven by the rear driveshaft, so it is pumping whenever the Bronco is moving, regardless of the T-case position (2wd,4H,4A,4L or "N")

The problem here is not with the transfer case itself but with the logic that Ford has built to control it.

 

[gweberg29]

Thanks for chiming in @BigMeatsBronco ! I'll re-re-post this video I found on another thread. Your comments would be greatly appreciated. After viewing this video, how can you imagine this transfer case going from a neutral position to an in gear position. I found it interesting. It shows it's oil pump driven off of the input shaft and the clutch pack on the output shaft. I have been towing a 99 Dodge Dakota for a very long time. It has a manual transfer case where one can feel it in neutral as the transfer case shifter moves side to side. I cannot see from this video what constitutes neutral. You might need to rewind it.

 

[BigMeatsBronco]

excellent video, thanks for posting

 

[Chaddy]

WTF this ain't the Bronco sport here buddy, the internals of this transfer case are almost identical to the rest of "true" T-cases borg Warner has been building for 20+ years, very similar to the isuzu vehicross torque in demand system, also the Hummer H3 is similar... The transfer case is just like any other one, it has high and low range, with real gears!!!
there is a "true" disconnect between splines to engage/disengage the front axle in 4H, in AWD, or 4A it uses a wet clutches pack to apply various amounts of torque to the front axle... apparently it also has a neutral (tow) position, as most other "real" transfer cases do... and in this position it also disconnects the front driveline, and the rear drive line ...or it disconnects the input from the transmission while leaving the front disconnected as well.

and it has an oil pump that is driven by the rear driveshaft, so it is pumping whenever the Bronco is moving, regardless of the T-case position (2wd,4H,4A,4L or "N")

The problem here is not with the transfer case itself but with the logic that Ford has built to control it.

WTF this ain't the Bronco sport here buddy, the internals of this transfer case are almost identical to the rest of "true" T-cases borg Warner has been building for 20+ years, very similar to the isuzu vehicross torque in demand system, also the Hummer H3 is similar... The transfer case is just like any other one, it has high and low range, with real gears!!!
there is a "true" disconnect between splines to engage/disengage the front axle in 4H, in AWD, or 4A it uses a wet clutches pack to apply various amounts of torque to the front axle... apparently it also has a neutral (tow) position, as most other "real" transfer cases do... and in this position it also disconnects the front driveline, and the rear drive line ...or it disconnects the input from the transmission while leaving the front disconnected as well.

and it has an oil pump that is driven by the rear driveshaft, so it is pumping whenever the Bronco is moving, regardless of the T-case position (2wd,4H,4A,4L or "N")

The problem here is not with the transfer case itself but with the logic that Ford has built to control it.
[/QUOTE

WTF this ain't the Bronco sport here buddy, the internals of this transfer case are almost identical to the rest of "true" T-cases borg Warner has been building for 20+ years, very similar to the isuzu vehicross torque in demand system, also the Hummer H3 is similar... The transfer case is just like any other one, it has high and low range, with real gears!!!
there is a "true" disconnect between splines to engage/disengage the front axle in 4H, in AWD, or 4A it uses a wet clutches pack to apply various amounts of torque to the front axle... apparently it also has a neutral (tow) position, as most other "real" transfer cases do... and in this position it also disconnects the front driveline, and the rear drive line ...or it disconnects the input from the transmission while leaving the front disconnected as well.

and it has an oil pump that is driven by the rear driveshaft, so it is pumping whenever the Bronco is moving, regardless of the T-case position (2wd,4H,4A,4L or "N")

The problem here is not with the transfer case itself but with the logic that Ford has built to control it.

WTF this ain't the Bronco sport here buddy, the internals of this transfer case are almost identical to the rest of "true" T-cases borg Warner has been building for 20+ years, very similar to the isuzu vehicross torque in demand system, also the Hummer H3 is similar... The transfer case is just like any other one, it has high and low range, with real gears!!!
there is a "true" disconnect between splines to engage/disengage the front axle in 4H, in AWD, or 4A it uses a wet clutches pack to apply various amounts of torque to the front axle... apparently it also has a neutral (tow) position, as most other "real" transfer cases do... and in this position it also disconnects the front driveline, and the rear drive line ...or it disconnects the input from the transmission while leaving the front disconnected as well.

and it has an oil pump that is driven by the rear driveshaft, so it is pumping whenever the Bronco is moving, regardless of the T-case position (2wd,4H,4A,4L or "N")

The problem here is not with the transfer case itself but with the logic that Ford has built to control it.

That’s what I said above. The Bronco is supposed to have a true transfer case that disconnects the differentials

WTF this ain't the Bronco sport here buddy, the internals of this transfer case are almost identical to the rest of "true" T-cases borg Warner has been building for 20+ years, very similar to the isuzu vehicross torque in demand system, also the Hummer H3 is similar... The transfer case is just like any other one, it has high and low range, with real gears!!!
there is a "true" disconnect between splines to engage/disengage the front axle in 4H, in AWD, or 4A it uses a wet clutches pack to apply various amounts of torque to the front axle... apparently it also has a neutral (tow) position, as most other "real" transfer cases do... and in this position it also disconnects the front driveline, and the rear drive line ...or it disconnects the input from the transmission while leaving the front disconnected as well.

and it has an oil pump that is driven by the rear driveshaft, so it is pumping whenever the Bronco is moving, regardless of the T-case position (2wd,4H,4A,4L or "N")

The problem here is not with the transfer case itself but with the logic that Ford has built to control it.

The Bronco does have a true Tcase because it’s supposed to disconnect from the differentials, be it electronically, but it is supposed to disconnect. An AWD vehicle cannot be disconnected from the driveline. That’s what I was talking about.

 

[dgorsett]

Really spit balling here but: If the failures have indeed all been 4A Tcases and not knowing exactly where the shaft(s) disconnect when in neutral, could the issue be the clutch pack transmitting (through friction) torque to the transmission output making it turn and frying the transmission internals over time. And perhaps it only happens to some due to manufacturing tolerances, some clutch packs are tighter...

Or again if failures are all 4A's maybe the indexing of that shift motor is faulty, which I suppose could happen with the part-time also.

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