New Steering Company Enters the Chat: Vasher Design VX Offroad Rack Brace

[popo_patty]

Sooooooo, in between dodging angry comments on my last Youtube video, I saw this pop up in my feed... I am not an engineer and do not currently have an opinion on this. I just wanted to share it here and hear from ya'll. Very interesting indeed....

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[popo_patty]

Oh dear lord!... another attempt at fixing the symptoms and not the problem....

I think the text on his shirt says it all....

I would not touch this with a ten foot pole. He is going to build an entire billet rack and still keep the lash adjustment? Is that because his manufacturing tolerances are not any better than the original manufacturers cast product? Or is it because he does not fully grasp the problem? Just build it beefier and it will not break? is that it?

It is a freaking joke...Will they hold up better than stock? yeah. but it is only addressing the symptoms...

Cool, yea I wasn’t too sure about the “fix” that he had shown first. It looked a little suspect. He did mention a bushing that would also go inside as well but didn’t touch on that much. I wish he had more info on the full rack.

I looked up his pricing and it’s essentially same as BB

 

[5GENIDN]

Cool, yea I wasn’t too sure about the “fix” that he had shown first. It looked a little suspect. He did mention a bushing that would also go inside as well but didn’t touch on that much. I wish he had more info on the full rack.

I looked up his pricing and it’s essentially same as BB

That original brace for the lash adjuster..... hhmmmm... Yes it will keep the bottom of that casting from blowing off, but where does that pressure go? The Lash adjuster, that double pronged piece is pushed against the rack with a spring. When the rack if forced down against it so hard that the spring is bottomed out, the bottom (casting and screw) are blown outward. If that is stopped with this brace, then the pressure has to go some where. It is going to push those prongs apart, permanently deforming them outward (bending them). Now the lash adjuster will not be able to push up against the rack and into the pinion, and will at some point (rather soon) start misaligning and tearing up teeth. Now you have not broken the housing casting you have broken both the rack and the pinion. That is unless there is stretch in his bolts which means the casting is going to break anyway just now you will not "see" it... at least not right away.

Again... Addressing the symptoms and not the problem.

The other big question is what bushings is he going to use... That is a huge part of this. The fact that he does not even address this is a major red flag to me.

 

[orion]

All I'm going to say is this guy has my respect. He built his suspension components by hand and seems to know what he's doing.

This particular product @5GENIDN is indeed a bandaid to stock rack or a fix for stock rack if you popped the adjuster which is it's main purpose. Some people can't afford 74 Weld parts or buy a new rack if they did break their's. This is for them. And no, that pressure your talking about is going to go to the new bushings, just like the broncobuster bushings or the rough country bushings. Yeah, he doesn't talk about the bushing but I'm sure they are better than what Ford has put in there! Have you seen his prototype long travel suspension parts he hand built? I think he has a good grasp of what's going on and how to fix or mitigate it.

 

[5GENIDN]

All I'm going to say is this guy has my respect. He built his suspension components by hand and seems to know what he's doing.

This particular product @5GENIDN is indeed a bandaid to stock rack or a fix for stock rack if you popped the adjuster which is it's main purpose. Some people can't afford 74 Weld parts or buy a new rack if they did break their's. This is for them. And no, that pressure your talking about is going to go to the new bushings, just like the broncobuster bushings or the rough country bushings. Yeah, he doesn't talk about the bushing but I'm sure they are better than what Ford has put in there! Have you seen his prototype long travel suspension parts he hand built? I think he has a good grasp of what's going on and how to fix or mitigate it.

The man may be salt of the earth awesome. I do not know the man. I do not know what he has done before. He may well have mad skills like you say. If I have inferred anything negative about the man himself I truly apologize because I do not know him.

My points about the product stand. Does not matter if anyone can afford his products or someone else's products, that has no bearing on my very superficial evaluation of the product itself. Real world testing results could possibly prove me wrong and change my mind. But on the face based on what I know (my knowledge) about the subject I stand by my evaluation preliminary as it is.

I also did not and have not made any judgement on the cost/pricing of said lash adjuster band aid. My comments are critical of the theory. I do not think it is a good idea regardless of price. full stop.

My comments about the full rack. I will reiterate, why would you make a full billet rack like he is doing and include the lash adjustment? If you can manufacture that thing to tolerances that do not require the lash adjuster then you have the opportunity to add bushings near/ around the pinion/rack contact.... right where they are most needed.

Billet is expensive. Machining it is expensive. You are already making a part that could have very tight tolerances. Why design something as if you were casting the part? That lash adjustment is there because of the large tolerances required in mass produced casting. No doubt the housing would be stronger depending on material selection, which he does not address, but, I am assuming is appropriate.

Bushing material selection is vitally important. Indentational load deflection, rebound and durability are but three of the characteristics that come to mind. Durability here could be a bit misleading. It needs to be defined better. first and foremost it is durability in a lubricated frictional environment. Assuming a polymer selection (for the ILD and rebound requirements) how does it react to the selected lubricant? How plastic is it? That comment is about the characteristic to deform and retain shape not material chemical structure.

when we place the tie rod at an angle, (lift the vehicle) we place the current bushings in a position the new direction of forces exceeds the material characteristics of the bushing in both rebound and plastic deformation. The Bushings are failing. That is why you see a number of people/companies trying to come up with a fix.

I do not know you! I do not know how much you know about this. You may well know more about this than I do. I assure you I am no expert in any of this but I do know more than most people when it comes to mechanical design and materials and processes. And although I taught classes in both at the University, I am no expert. My knowledge base in these areas is rudimentary compared to the experts that work in these fields on a daily.

 

[Miketator]

Hello, this is Mike, I am the engineer who developed the rack (VX Rock Rack) mentioned above. I can assure you the design is sound with proper material selection, and support throughout the rack housing. The internals are in-fact quite precise.
5GENIDN, I would appreciate it if you not trying to tear down all of my hard work, time, research and investment without actual knowledge of what I have created. I have my proprietary reasons for the internal components and design. The rack has also been thoroughly tested under the harshest possible conditions and I fully lifetime warrantee the housing. The BRACE is of coarse a "band-aid". It repairs the rack housing and utilizes a bushing internally to keep the load of of the take-up. There is absolutely no "fixing symptoms and not the problem" happening here. I have engineered my solution according to first principles with the goal of creating a long-lasting, easy to service, and virtually indestructible steering rack solution.

 

[Hemisfear]

Hello, this is Mike, I am the engineer who developed the rack (VX Rock Rack) mentioned above. I can assure you the design is sound with proper material selection, and support throughout the rack housing. The internals are in-fact quite precise.
5GENIDN, I would appreciate it if you not trying to tear down all of my hard work, time, research and investment without actual knowledge of what I have created. I have my proprietary reasons for the internal components and design. The rack has also been thoroughly tested under the harshest possible conditions and I fully lifetime warrantee the housing. The BRACE is of coarse a "band-aid". It repairs the rack housing and utilizes a bushing internally to keep the load of of the take-up. There is absolutely no "fixing symptoms and not the problem" happening here. I have engineered my solution according to first principles with the goal of creating a long-lasting, easy to service, and virtually indestructible steering rack solution.

We've got a lot of armchair engineers here Mike, personally I don't invest much in the "expertise" on this website, too much BS and attitude.
Keep up the great work!

 

[BAUS67]

@5GENIDN Scroll a couple of posts up. I don't think he tagged you properly. The engineer responded to you. Just wanted you to see it.

 

[BAUS67]

@Miketator For the record I don't believe Joe (5Gen) was trying to tear down your hard work but here in 6G land it was always the only way to call out those who know from those who do not know. In the beginning there were many people here that claimed to know the deal but when pressed you would get the cold shoulder or just someone who would just BS their way through it.

Plus, TBH, after the whole BroncoBuster overpriced BS that has no use other than to line his pockets I must say it is the only way to weed your way through all the crap to get to the truth. Plus it took you almost 2 months to react to his post. Granted I know you are probably not here every day and I did not see this thread until just today but here again I don't think he posted just to be an A$$ towards you, he is just trying to weed through the BS for the sake of other forum members who may not have the intellect, or understanding to weed through all this stuff. It's not just a "send me your money because I know best" thing.

 

[5GENIDN]

Hello, this is Mike, I am the engineer who developed the rack (VX Rock Rack) mentioned above. I can assure you the design is sound with proper material selection, and support throughout the rack housing. The internals are in-fact quite precise.
5GENIDN, I would appreciate it if you not trying to tear down all of my hard work, time, research and investment without actual knowledge of what I have created. I have my proprietary reasons for the internal components and design. The rack has also been thoroughly tested under the harshest possible conditions and I fully lifetime warrantee the housing. The BRACE is of coarse a "band-aid". It repairs the rack housing and utilizes a bushing internally to keep the load of of the take-up. There is absolutely no "fixing symptoms and not the problem" happening here. I have engineered my solution according to first principles with the goal of creating a long-lasting, easy to service, and virtually indestructible steering rack solution.

You sir are absolutely correct. I do not know the design criteria, the materials selected, or even the required mating tolerances of the rack and pinion.

I will also make this clear to anyone that will listen... You sir know more about his than I do. full stop.
Your product may well be the cure to the problems (weak points) typically inherent in a mass produced rack an pinion.

I still have them same questions though. I also understand that often times the answer to those is "proprietary" and for good reason. But without those answers all I hear is trust me.

Maybe I should trust you. I am not designing a rack because, well it is not my forte. I have no expertise here. I know enough though to look for things that that simply might not occur to other people because I do have some expertise in some parallel fields.

This is a forum where we discuss our opinions. The video did leave me with numerous questions That I am absolutely sure you could answer and prove me wrong in front of everyone here. Again I also understand why you would choose not to do so because you do want your designs stolen... I get that.... Crappy world we live in when you are stuck between a rock and a hard place and can not defend your design with technical data... Again I understand.

In the end you may very well prove that your design is all that you say it is. But even after that... I would still want to know what makes your design work.

I apologize if I have distressed you.

Also, please remember, I am not selling anything, I represent no other product manufacturer, so I am not a competitor. I am the guy (or at lease I represent one of them) that you are trying to sell the product to. And yes, I would like to have my questions answered before I am on board with the product....

I do hope your field testing proves me wrong. We do need economical solutions to these weaknesses inherent in the mass produced rack and pinion.

 

[userdude]

Hello, this is Mike, I am the engineer who developed the rack (VX Rock Rack) mentioned above. I can assure you the design is sound with proper material selection, and support throughout the rack housing. The internals are in-fact quite precise.
5GENIDN, I would appreciate it if you not trying to tear down all of my hard work, time, research and investment without actual knowledge of what I have created. I have my proprietary reasons for the internal components and design. The rack has also been thoroughly tested under the harshest possible conditions and I fully lifetime warrantee the housing. The BRACE is of coarse a "band-aid". It repairs the rack housing and utilizes a bushing internally to keep the load of of the take-up. There is absolutely no "fixing symptoms and not the problem" happening here. I have engineered my solution according to first principles with the goal of creating a long-lasting, easy to service, and virtually indestructible steering rack solution.

You forgot "and be cheaper than the 74Weld billet rack". I assume it's possible, and since he's selling 'em like hotcakes, there is a market.

Now, if you want to talk about billet portals... lol

 

[mpeugeot]

Look why treat the root cause when you can treat the symptoms... LOL.

I am not questioning anyone's engineering, but it's backasswards to treat symptoms without determining a root cause.

That said, I haven't watched the video yet... If he has determined the root cause (supported by proper engineering to resolve the issue) then great, but I suspect that any solution that doesn't replace the housing is truly a bandaid that lacks the necessary rigidity to address the root cause of the failures (which I believe is the lack of support and rigidity necessary to function under the pressures routinely encountered while off-roading).

And after watching the video, his plan is to replace the entire housing... Imagine that.

Checked out the website, price seems to be just under $3k which seems to be reasonable.

 

[5GENIDN]

You forgot "and be cheaper than the 74Weld billet rack". I assume it's possible, and since he's selling 'em like hotcakes, there is a market.

Now, if you want to talk about billet portals... lol

A less expensive option would definitely be well embraced....

 

[5GENIDN]

Look why treat the root cause when you can treat the symptoms... LOL.

Now wait, you just described our entire pharmaceutical industry...

 

[orion]

@5GENIDN @raqball, I bought the rack housing and have it installed with my 2.0 internals. I also installed Carli's double sheer kit too. I'll let any of you know if I break anything.

When I go 37's I'll be on the look out for a parted out 3.0 rack and swap over the motor, pinion, and pinion electronics into this one. I don't see any issues with this rack housing.

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