NHTSA Opens Investigation Into Bronco 2.7L V6 Over Catastrophic Engine Failures

[MallSquatch]

I see no way for them to visually inspect a valve and determine if it is metallurgically inferior or not. Replacing head assemblies as a precaution on thousands of engines would be an enormous undertaking.

Oh agreed! I’m sure there are much smarter people than me working QA/QC that can track down lot numbers to see if vehicles are only affected in a certain build date range.

We will see, still lots of speculation going on. I do expect Ford to deal with this and take a mea culpa at the very least.

Sponsored

 

[Carolina Jim]

Serious question: How does everyone feel that Ford should handle the situation?

1. I see this as more of an integrity question for Ford versus a money question. Surely Ford's supplier contracts include indemnification for defective parts. HOWEVER...in the case of the MIC fiasco, Webasto produced exactly to Ford spec and it turned out to be a spec issue - not poor fulfillment. Ford's silence on these valves makes me think it was THEM what screwed the pooch again.

2. Follow the money. While these engine replacements are warranty work, a coupl'a members have seen dealer cost work-ups and say its a ~$15K job....plus you could reasonably add another $2-3K for customer pain & suffering.

So, how do you think Ford should handle the situation?

 

[M4Madness]

So, how do you think Ford should handle the situation?

I honestly don't have a viable solution. Going by an assumed $15K per engine change and multiplying it by the ENTIRE widest possible number affected (according to Ford) of 25,000 Broncos, that would be $375 MILLION to preemptively swap out all engines in that range.

 

[Carolina Jim]

Going by an assumed $15K per engine change

The $15K is post-explosion...I'd assume a preemptive fix would be a small fraction of that.

I Think the 25K is total MY21 2.7s. The 'bad batch' would be a small fraction of that.

If you ask a room full of rocket scientists to identify the most powerful force in the universe, the answer you'll hear is 'inertia'...as it takes much more energy to move a supine object than to alter the course of one in motion.

 

[M4Madness]

The $15K is post-explosion...I'd assume a preemptive fix would be a small fraction of that.

I agree that head swaps would be a much cheaper route, but still a lot of money.

I Think the 25K is total MY21 2.7s. The 'bad batch' would be a small fraction of that.

It may not be possible to narrow it to less than that. I have zero idea how Ford tracks parts in the factory. Are the valves all mixed in a huge batch that is constantly being added to, or do they build from one lot then move onto the next lot? If they keep lots in sequential order, then they could simply say anything between the start and end dates of the bad lot.

 

[Carolina Jim]

It may not be possible to narrow it to less than that.

Ford knows precisely what supplier's components are in each engine...and the date those components entered Ford property...they know the name of every assembly line employee who participated in the engine's production.

Further, Ford would contractually require each of their component suppliers to track the same information in their production process.

Whatever Ford's problem is...it ain't lack of 'information'.

 

[navi]

B6G has narrowed the months of affected builds to about 3, and the number of Broncos would be around 3000. Only Ford knows if this is accurate, but they know.
A valve job for 3000 vehicles would be pretty small compared to other recalls that have been done.
Ford can do that, or wait for the class action lawsuit I guess.

 

[North7]

B6G has narrowed the months of affected builds to about 3, and the number of Broncos would be around 3000. Only Ford knows if this is accurate, but they know.
A valve job for 3000 vehicles would be pretty small compared to other recalls that have been done.
Ford can do that, or wait for the class action lawsuit I guess.

Please re-read the article, it's 25,538 per Ford, not 3,000.

"Documents filed by Ford with NHTSA say 25,538 Broncos may have this problem."

 

[PELS82]

All in 2021 model year from what I’m reading here?

 

[navi]

Please re-read the article, it's 25,538 per Ford, not 3,000.

"Documents filed by Ford with NHTSA say 25,538 Broncos may have this problem."

I don't believe Ford is being truthful...

I did laugh while I was typing that.

 

[Compta38]

Please re-read the article, it's 25,538 per Ford, not 3,000.

"Documents filed by Ford with NHTSA say 25,538 Broncos may have this problem."

Wouldn't that be like every 2.7 built last year? I just don't see it as being that high or failure rate here would be much higher.

 

[BigHoof]

I agree that head swaps would be a much cheaper route, but still a lot of money.

It may not be possible to narrow it to less than that. I have zero idea how Ford tracks parts in the factory. Are the valves all mixed in a huge batch that is constantly being added to, or do they build from one lot then move onto the next lot? If they keep lots in sequential order, then they could simply say anything between the start and end dates of the bad lot.

Subaru / Toyota had over 16 times as many affected engines (over 400,000) with the bad valve spring issue and they were recalled at a cost in the hundreds of millions. They figured there was about a 1% failure rate in this case. Broken valve spring or valve itself, same end result.

Subaru pointed at valve springs that could potentially cause the car to stall and inflict further damage. Since these same springs keep engine valves shut during fuel combustion, it’s vital for their functional integrity to be intact. Their failure, in other words, could lead to serious accidents on the road.

Almost the same issue but with a different company. In addition to the recall to fix the issue, Subaru also offered affected owners money to upgrade to a newer product if they did not want to deal with getting their car repaired, which can be a huge inconvenience, and to give them peace of mind since the actual repair may be months out due to the shear numbers needing repaired.

To fix properly, Ford should change out the heads on the affected engines. That would probably be the most cost effective solution vs changing out valves that would need seated. I doubt you will see that though being it's Ford so at a minimum, the warranty ought to be extended and all rentals and towing needed covered no questions or hoops to jump through. Having your sole source of transportation go down due to a known defect and not getting substitute transportation is pretty shitty on Ford's part. Sure there is warranty but how are you supposed to get to work while it's being fixed? Being a known defect and still under warranty, no loaner is inexcusable.

 

[BiggieStallz]

Yikes - something to watch:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2021-ford-bronco-catastrophic-engine-124138673.html

 

[2100]

Apparently so

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...l-v6-over-catastrophic-engine-failures.45942/

 

[Broncoshrimp]

What does Ford have to be transparent about more than they repair the vehicle under warranty? From what I've read on the subject, there were substandard valvetrain parts that were incorrectly manufactured by a supplier. The potentially failed vavles have been traced to a production Lot or multiple lots for a 6 month or so production period.

Configuration management of parts in auto manufacturing is built into the manufacturing process. Ford knows which engines are affected. It should treated it as warranty issue.

You’ve read an official communication from Ford stating that the failed valves are from substandard parts from a supplier?? Not trying to be snarky, but I’ve been obsessed with researching this issue since it happened to me in September 2021. I haven’t come across any official notification from Ford, and have not heard of anyone that has been contacted preemptively to fix their valve issue before it blows.

All of the information that is out there right now is from the grassroots effort from this forum, facebook, and Reddit. See @Lucchese and @mpeugeot threads.

Sponsored