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Look at that IFS flex! Oh, wait...Funnily enough I went out today. I don’t have a rig but all of my good friends do.
Come on now. There's some guy out there somewhere with a quarter million dollar IFS rig that can hang with them.
And I have already made the point that for actual extreme rock crawling like this 90% of rigs are 2-door YJ or TJ crawlers. (Some JK’s now) and also tube buggies are getting increasingly popular. Ford doesn’t give a shit about this market because the percent of Bronco owners who would want to go beat the actual shit out of their rigs, and build them up like this is so small. 2 of my friends are even considering building tube buggies because of the limitations of a Jeep.
Mopar is going to exceed $1B (that’s with a B) in aftermarket sales this year because of the Wrangler and it’s ability to create the image and deliver upon a go anywhere lifestyle vehicle.
You seriously think Ford doesn’t give a shit about that market?
That $1B is just Mopar parts, I haven’t googled what total aftermarket revenue is for Wranglers but safe to say multiple billions of dollars. This article says the aftermarket is $100B, with $43B in accessories. https://www.trucks.com/2018/10/31/mopar-north-america-aftermarket-sales/
That market isn’t building an image of a short wheel base Baja style truck, they’re building their version of a vehicle that looks like it can do exactly what you posted pictures of even if it only sees carline at school and the mall.
You need to stop jumping on the hype train, you didn’t want a full size Raptor bronco because it would be too wide, Ford shows the Bronco R that’s wider than a full size raptor and you you’re ready to buy it now, you defend Fords decision to offer a turbo 4 and 2.7 EcoBoost over the Coyote because you watch TFL and see 2.7 F150’s being tuned to beat coyotes except they don’t have 35’s on them, you ignore the Bronco R sounding as horrible as it does, then you actually like the Tesla CyberTruck which sums it up in whole. Ford could build whatever they choose, style it however they want and you’d be a fan.
Let’s hope Ford give us some more details ASAP that won’t lead to a $60k raptor bronco being worth $25k in 5 years.
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1. Actual rock-crawler rigs are not "go-anywhere lifestyle vehicles" they are specialized tools that excel at durability and being able to climb over extreme obstacles. On all of these rigs basically none of the jeep actually remains other than the frame, the engine/transmission, and some body panels. Between one-ton axles/gearing/diff locks, Atlas transfer cases, custom driveshafts, custom skid plates, full-hydro steering racks, coilovers, custom roll cages, wheelbase stretches, and fuel cells there is basically nothing of the original jeep remaining. And guess what? Nobody is buying this shit from MOPAR. Ford no doubt intends to have the Bronco compete with Jeep in the ways that they know they will be able to from a sales standpoint. Ford knows the actual extreme crawler market is never going to switch from jeeps, unless that's to move to a tube buggy platform. And you know what? If you really really want to, swapping to stick front axle on the Bronco probably will not be all that difficult. It's going to add difficulty and expense but if you are truly about the crawling life then that's just part of the game.
2. The "image" of the Bronco has yet to be seen. We have no idea what Ford's intention for it is yet, my guess is that they intend to show it just as an all-around capable vehicle. And they will show that. Nobody really thinks that a jeep on 35'' low-pros and 22'' wheels is doing insane rock crawling.
3. I'm going to keep being on the hype train because I trust in Ford and if they fuck it up I will happily trade my JK wrangler in for a JL. I've stated this multiple times, but everything we've seen and heard is that Ford is not going to mess this up.
4. The Bronco R is pretty much just a drivetrain and frame test mule for all intents and purposes. It shows some styling cues that I'm happy with so I think it's cool. We already know the Bronco is based on the ranger so it will not be nearly as wide as the Bronco R is. As far as defending the ecoboost; it's not even defending it's just that I realize that is what is practical. The 2.7 or 3.0 will stomp the shit out of the jeep, and the coyote has a lot of packaging issues. Expecting a V8 in a midsize vehicle is unreasonable, as much as I would love to see it I realize it's not happening and it's not something I'm going to worry about.
5. Nobody ever said the ecoboost engines sound good. The 2017+ raptor doesn't sound good either. It's just the nature of the beast.
6. The Cybertruck is cool. Tesla is thinking outside the box and I like to see that. I still am not sold on the back end but the front end is crazy cool IMO.
7. As I stated above, if ford messes up the Bronco I will buy a JL wrangler. I actually put my money where my mouth was and when it was revealed the Bronco was a 2021 MY I purchased my Jeep JK because I couldn't wait that long.
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My 15, which is the cummins (quad cab 4WD long bed) only had 2 issues. Battery temp sensor went in first month and trans hunted at extremely low loads, when engine cold (fixed with some trans solenoid).
I only have 53K, but It been mostly towing 9200 lbs and although I keep my stuff maintained and looking as new as possible, I don't outright baby it by any means. I'm kind of surprised about the interior stuff (mine hasn't had one issue), as that would be no different than my truck.
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1. You’re absolutely correct, there are jeeps doing some insane wheeling on stock running gear I will not dispute that. If on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the rock crawling I’m talking about, and a 6 being the trails a stock rubicon can take on, I expect the Bronco to land at around a 5. Ford decided to leave the 6+ land to the Jeep, because being good in all other categories isn’t worth the sacrifices it requires.
My comment about “not buying shit from mopar” was referring to the serious wheeling I was referring. Obviously mopar sells an insane amount of lift kits, bumpers, etc. and I expect ford performance to do the same.
As far as the V8: which “bronco competitor” has a V8 option? And in addition, the midsize vehicles you are talking about with V8’s are running SOHC or pushrod V8’s. The coyote, being DOHC, is a big fucking engine and is not a good fit for midsize vehicles. Honestly it’s likely that the 7.3 would fit better in the Bronco than the coyote would just due to it being a pushrod design.
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I don't think the numbers are inaccurate - people are definitely buying stuff form MOPAR. I think the assertion being made here (which I would be inclined to believe) is that the people buying all the dealer offered MOPAR accessories and the people actually using their jeeps hard on extreme trails are not the same group of people.
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It doesn’t mean they are buying Mopar branded gear, it means they are buying their gear through Mopar.
Same as Ford partnering with ARB, Yakima, etc for the Bronco that you’ll be able to get from your dealer via Ford. Roll it into the financing or even warranty with some parts.
The numbers are in the article I provided a link to. That is all Mopar not just Wrangler accessories and parts. $1B is still $1B and to think that Ford doesn’t want a piece of what Mopar says is a $100B market is silly.
Like I said, they aren’t ordering parts to make a Baja Wrangler
The reason those factory accessories are selling is precisely because they're trying to emulate the real hard core enthusiasts.
Ford wants those sales too -- so those real hard core users need to exist for the rest to emulate. If the BroncoBronco is shunned by the real enthusiasts then the poser dollars won't exist for Ford.
F150 and Ranger Raptor sales are driven by the image of the trophy truck racers -- 900hp, long suspension, high speed, super wide. It remains to be seen what Ford intends the image of the Bronco to be, but trophy truck is going to be difficult with its form.
Exactly, you have to have the hard core 1%'ers in order to get the market for the other 99% who want it to look like they are hard core, or at least semi hard core. there would be no mall crawlers, the vast majority of the market, without the small portion of rock crawlers.
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