Vehicle Semiconductor Chips 101

[22OBX]

What’s interesting is how they manage supply. Obviously a lot of decisions regarding which modules to allocate chips. This has to be made many weeks before build. I am guessing the one missing was intentionally left low inventory knowing it was possible to install after when needed.

Agree. I’m also not sure of interchangeability with other Ford product lines. This was an interesting quote during their fourth quarter investor presentation.

“Our team did a fantastic job working with partners to maximize component availability,” said John Lawler, Ford’s CFO. “We allocated those volumes to in-demand new vehicles like the Bronco (SUV) and Maverick (small pickup), profitable models like F-Series (trucks) and Transit, and customer orders.”

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[Tazn69Bronco]

I've seen something about this that all the automakers, not just Ford, are using semiconductors that are THE most expensive and hardest to make. The semiconductor industry itself has tried to get them to update to the 21st century with the tech they are using as it would no longer take 3000 to operate a normal car if they did, but the automakers have chosen to stick with tried and true.

Seems like this "shortage" would have been the perfect time to test new tech and if they could maybe cut some of those numbers down with easier to obtain materials...

What do I know?

 

[wetdog]

Stupid chips.

 

[ocbucks1]

I've seen something about this that all the automakers, not just Ford, are using semiconductors that are THE most expensive and hardest to make. The semiconductor industry itself has tried to get them to update to the 21st century with the tech they are using as it would no longer take 3000 to operate a normal car if they did, but the automakers have chosen to stick with tried and true.

Seems like this "shortage" would have been the perfect time to test new tech and if they could maybe cut some of those numbers down with easier to obtain materials...

What do I know?

Electric cars require more. All electronics require semiconductors. I don’t think there is another material other than silicon being used anywhere. But there are newer chip designs and these would require reconfiguring of modules architecture. That would help supply some because auto doesn’t use a current design but Doesn’t change the total needed.

Reducing number of chips is really not a goal I heard of. Each chip controls a process so the more electronic systems the more chips. Cars are more complex than ever. Chips are reliable, NOT expensive and the supply will return. It’s was a very unusual circumstances that caused this issue. See original post.

 

[JB93]

Auto industry is known for being ruthless to their supplier base. Chip companies have more profitable market segments for their production than to sell to automotive. I’m sure automakers are willing to pay a fair price for chips now, but these chip makers have other customers who were willing to pay a fair price in normal times and they are choosing to support those customers needs. I wouldn’t divert help to an industry who has a history of putting the screw to their suppliers at the expense of harming my better margin customers who won’t turn on me after the crisis has passed.

 

[North7]

I've seen something about this that all the automakers, not just Ford, are using semiconductors that are THE most expensive and hardest to make. The semiconductor industry itself has tried to get them to update to the 21st century with the tech they are using as it would no longer take 3000 to operate a normal car if they did, but the automakers have chosen to stick with tried and true.

Seems like this "shortage" would have been the perfect time to test new tech and if they could maybe cut some of those numbers down with easier to obtain materials...

What do I know?

You have your information incorrect. The automotive industry uses older technology, simple, low profit chip designs. Price target being number one, guaranteed 10 - 15 year availability life from the chip manufacturer, number two.

Chip companies would rather make higher profit chips, the ones that change every year for your latest cell phone, computer or game console, not low profit, low tech, automotive chips. But hey, what do I know, after spending years in the electronics industry, here it is from CNBC.

Why there’s a chip shortage that’s hurting everything from the PlayStation 5 to the Chevy Malibu

Carmakers aren’t directly competing with high-tech companies for the same chip supply. Car chips are usually based on older chip manufacturing technologies and don’t need the bleeding edge.

 

[d_bearhugs]

Thanks. What is the material that you speak about and where does it come from?

So honestly it is metals in general. So we use some metal that requires magnesium. There is a shortage of that so they struggle to produce. We work with Stainless Steel and Aluminum material for the chambers. Both of which are questionable on delivery.

 

[spot]

There are a lot of gear heads here that can rattle of how engines and drivetrains work and how to make many modifications on our Broncos. But they might struggle to describe what a semiconductor does and why is there a shortage. I had a reply to a post that said "I know just leave them out". Not

First full disclosure I like this stuff and I do have an engineering degree but I am not am expert but thought I would provide a basic overview since this is such a big topic now.

• What does semiconductor mean? Metal is a conductor of electricity and glass is a insolater (does not conduct). A semiconductor can be either. Weather electricity will flow through the semiconductor or not is changed by energy. In electronics, the energy is electromagnetic fields produced by transistors. The transistors and software, for example will dictate off or on , up or down, locked or not locked and a lot more detailed decisions about when to open the circuit.
• How many semiconductors are there is a car? Overall the world uses one trillion semiconductor chips a year! You probably know they are in every electronic device. The auto industry uses about 10% of the total. In one car there can be 3,000 chips.
• How are they manufactured? This is where it gets very complicated. A chip takes 2 months to make and goes through 3000 manufacturing steps. They are made on a silicon wafer. The silicon wafer is the "semiconductor" material. This goes through a dozen or more machines before complete. It takes massive amounts of pure water to purify equipment. One factory reported they used 60,000 tons of water a year. Because of the requirements and complexity, there are only a handful of factories in the world. The order lead time prior pandemic was 10 weeks and is now roughly 18 weeks.
• Why is there a shortage? There were multiple factors that came together to cause the current shortage.
  • -First at the pandemic auto maker reduced orders expecting a reduction in car buying. At the same time there was a huge increase in buying of other stay at home electronics. For a somewhat brief period, the chip manufacturers focused on providing chips to other industries and auto orders were now behind
  • -Then the strained relations and trading with China, where the biggest chip manufactory was located ,reduced supply. But this was not really a direct hit to auto.
  • -A majority auto chips were made in Japan and in one factory. This factory had a severe fire. This is what hurt Ford the most.in getting behind on orders. This plant is now back but not full capacity.
  • -Another major factory in Twain was shut down due to a drought there and they did not have enough water.
• What did Ford do? Contrary to popular opinion here Ford did make some moves. They made an exclusive partnership directly with a foundry, global foundries, This vertical integration is not common in auto. Overall they are in slightly better or the same position as most auto makers. (Tesla did do some creative software engineering to make better use to available chips.)

Want more Semiconductor Video.

I hope that helps. We know the track record with the Bronco and delays. But this one is truly farther reaching than Ford and the bronco. We have less of a gripe in my opinion.

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I'm in the semiconductor manufacturing and equipment business, and this overview is quite accurate. I too am suffering from the side effects of this chip shortage since I have no visibility as to when my Bronco will be built even though I had an August 12, 2020, reservation and January 21, 2021, order. I did order my Bronco with all the bells & whistles, so it's partly my fault based upon configuration choices. One thing to note is the Japanese factory actually had 2 successive fires. It's highly unusual for any chip factory to have a fire at all based upon the massive precautions they take, let alone 2.

 

[ocbucks1]

I'm in the semiconductor manufacturing and equipment business, and this overview is quite accurate. I too am suffering from the side effects of this chip shortage since I have no visibility as to when my Bronco will be built even though I had an August 12, 2020, reservation and January 21, 2021, order. I did order my Bronco with all the bells & whistles, so it's partly my fault based upon configuration choices. One thing to note is the Japanese factory actually had 2 successive fires. It's highly unusual for any chip factory to have a fire at all based upon the massive precautions they take, let alone 2.

Thanks. Btw I have almost the exact same dates and not all the bells. Still same situation. Good luck.

 

[Jdc]

But there are newer chip designs and these would require reconfiguring of modules architecture. That would help supply some because auto doesn’t use a current design but Doesn’t change the total needed.

Reducing number of chips is really not a goal I heard of. Each chip controls a process so the more electronic systems the more chips.

I've read about the push for newer chips and one way that car companies could potentially reduce the number of chips is by moving some of the functionality to software and way from hardware.

 

[John Auer]

I'm in the semiconductor manufacturing and equipment business, and this overview is quite accurate. I too am suffering from the side effects of this chip shortage since I have no visibility as to when my Bronco will be built even though I had an August 12, 2020, reservation and January 21, 2021, order. I did order my Bronco with all the bells & whistles, so it's partly my fault based upon configuration choices. One thing to note is the Japanese factory actually had 2 successive fires. It's highly unusual for any chip factory to have a fire at all based upon the massive precautions they take, let alone 2.

You're not at fault for ordering a vehicle with "all the bells and whistles." I did the same and I'm not willing to sacrifice, so I'll wait.

 

[spot]

I appreciate your note. It's unfortunate that at least 50% of the delay is due to dealer allocation limitations.

 

[ocbucks1]

I appreciate your note. It's unfortunate that at least 50% of the delay is due to dealer allocation limitations.

Delay getting to production yes. But this is post production delay and obviously not related to dealer allocation at that point.

 

[spot]

Yes, since my Bronco has yet to be scheduled for production everything up to this point has been a pre-production delay (i.e. reservation #, configuration, parts availability, dealer allocation limitations, etc.). Having had numerous conversations with Ford Marketing it seems a primary component of the delay up to this point has been related to dealer allocation limitations. Which is sad since Ford picked the dealer for me without my input. Seems like a flawed system.

 

[North7]

Yes, since my Bronco has yet to be scheduled for production everything up to this point has been a pre-production delay (i.e. reservation #, configuration, parts availability, dealer allocation limitations, etc.). Having had numerous conversations with Ford Marketing it seems a primary component of the delay up to this point has been related to dealer allocation limitations. Which is sad since Ford picked the dealer for me without my input. Seems like a flawed system.

You were allowed to select your desired dealer during the reservation process, many missed that. After the fact, you could have called Ford Customer Care and switch dealers, up to the point of the VIN assigned. I think the change window has closed, but if you don't have a VIN, call Ford Customer Care and ask.

However, please, let's keep this thread on topic, many threads discuss reservations and orders.

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