Help: I purchased a factory stolen Bronco Raptor and had no idea

[esquirebdc]

THIS IS IN NO WAY LEGAL ADVICE!!!

But, if I had this case I would be saying that its the dealership who is the last one holding the bag... not you. They are the ones who bought a stolen vehicle, and that is their problem. Not sure of Arizona law, and maybe there is something in AZ law that makes that strategy incorrect, but I would be making that point loud and enough to perhaps scare the dealership into dealing with you. Its too bad you turned in your Raptor before seeking legal advice, I'd have told those idiots to go pound sand (legal term).

You were a purchaser "for value" so to speak, and then sold it yourself. Now if the dealership figured out it was stolen before selling you the Truck, then yes, would be the last one holding onto the stolen item and it gets returned to its rightful owner.

Couple questions though. You said it was a dude, but the two owners were both women, Gina Marks and Hanson (registration said or, I assume then it was jointly owned). If so, why did only Hanson sign the bill of sale to you. And, the bill of sale said 87k, not 75k...

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[ONCEHADABRAPTOR]

VERY confused! So do I understand correctly that the Ford dealership took back the Bronco Raptor AND the Raptor truck? Why? Why weren’t you allowed to keep the truck? Even if you owed on it, you had purchased it? Or am I not reading this correctly, because frankly I’m lost.

That is correct but the bronco was vin swapped even though in theory it was legally mine in same shape or form

 

[ONCEHADABRAPTOR]

THIS IS IN NO WAY LEGAL ADVICE!!!

But, if I had this case I would be saying that its the dealership who is the last one holding the bag... not you. They are the ones who bought a stolen vehicle, and that is their problem. Not sure of Arizona law, and maybe there is something in AZ law that makes that strategy incorrect, but I would be making that point loud and enough to perhaps scare the dealership into dealing with you. Its too bad you turned in your Raptor before seeking legal advice, I'd have told those idiots to go pound sand (legal term).

You were a purchaser "for value" so to speak, and then sold it yourself. Now if the dealership figured out it was stolen before selling you the Truck, then yes, would be the last one holding onto the stolen item and it gets returned to its rightful owner.

Couple questions though. You said it was a dude, but the two owners were both women, Gina Marks and Hanson (registration said or, I assume then it was jointly owned). If so, why did only Hanson sign the bill of sale to you. And, the bill of sale said 87k, not 75k...

I am a good person and I choose to go back. Was that legally what I was thinking ya but if i didnt go back do you think I wanted to find out what would happen? I was there in 30 minutes immediately.

That was already signed I am probably an idiot clearly for not looking hard enough but he proved me more evidence and seemed more right than wrong to believe it was a true deal. He said he had like 30 cars made like 10 million off bitcoin LOL. Lived in a Seattle penthouse. Moral of the story I assumed this guy had money to burn. Especially when he agreed to come into the DMV with me. I was trying any tactic for him to fall on the deal and he just kept doing what I wanted him to do.

 

[DefNotBuddyLee]

I agree with the call to an attorney. Sounds like you have done so and was told "no" due to conflict of interest? Not sure what that's about. I have generally found that attorneys are more than happy to help you with just about any issue, provided you have $. I could easily see an attorney not handling this on contingency, but want to try a few things and have $10-$20k to put on retainer budget...let's go! At the very least they would have offered to let you pay them for guidance on handling the disposition hearing for the seized/stolen property. The dealer doesn't just get to say "this vehicle is stolen so we are returning to Ford." Maybe that process happened and you saved us the details? If so, then ignore the above advice because your time has passed.

 

[ONCEHADABRAPTOR]

I agree with the call to an attorney. Sounds like you have done so and was told "no" due to conflict of interest? Not sure what that's about. I have generally found that attorneys are more than happy to help you with just about any issue, provided you have $. I could easily see an attorney not handling this on contingency, but want to try a few things and have $10-$20k to put on retainer budget...let's go! At the very least they would have offered to let you pay them for guidance on handling the disposition hearing for the seized/stolen property. The dealer doesn't just get to say "this vehicle is stolen so we are returning to Ford." Maybe that process happened and you saved us the details? If so, then ignore the above advice because your time has passed.

All of them have turned me down because they are pretty much contracted with the dealers so they would be going against their own clients. Second what I learned attorneys dont just know all categories of stuff. So many "dealership" attorneys I can call.

 

[Baja Bronco]

That is correct but the bronco was vin swapped even though in theory it was legally mine in same shape or form

Yeah but, why did you lose the Raptor (truck)? Even if you used the Bronco as a down payment, and had to finance part of it, it was yours? Why couldn’t you just refinance it again? So now there’s a 23 Raptor with mileage on it sitting on a dealership’s lot? What’s stopping you from getting it again?

The Bronco incident is convoluted enough, but losing the truck too is ridiculous, IMO.

 

[ONCEHADABRAPTOR]

I agree with the call to an attorney. Sounds like you have done so and was told "no" due to conflict of interest? Not sure what that's about. I have generally found that attorneys are more than happy to help you with just about any issue, provided you have $. I could easily see an attorney not handling this on contingency, but want to try a few things and have $10-$20k to put on retainer budget...let's go! At the very least they would have offered to let you pay them for guidance on handling the disposition hearing for the seized/stolen property. The dealer doesn't just get to say "this vehicle is stolen so we are returning to Ford." Maybe that process happened and you saved us the details? If so, then ignore the above advice because your time has passed.

Ford has already been paid out by their insurance and now mine is also trying to go after it

 

[broncobase1]

Oh man, so sorry this happend to you. Unfortunately its the world we live in today, so sad. It sounds like you are the victim of the classic chop shop scam, they take a stolen vehicle and give it the identity of a legit vehicle. There are some red flags to look for, I can't mention here.

The $75K was to good to be true. Good luck as the scammer got away with the cash, your best bet is to find the scammer and take legal action.

This is the classic chop shop scam of giving a stolen vehicle the identity of a legit vehicle. Often the legit vehicle is a salvaged vehicle, doesn't sound

This is horrible for you and I’m sorry. It sounds like you did your initial due diligence but unfortunately didn’t know what you didn’t know. To the rest of us it’s a reminder not to let emotions cloud judgement and pay attention to anything that seems a little suspicious. I’d like to say an online, private party, below market deal, cash requirement would have trigger my “too good to be true” response, but who knows

I wouldn't consider just the $75K and cash only as "too good to be true". Many private sales require cash only and

I agree to what everyone is saying and the 6-10 attorneys I have contacted all responded no and its a conflict of interest. I am trying to go more towards cooperate is what they are not understanding and or make this public to ford. They turn me down as its a conflict of interest which I believe means they already work for the local dealers. Which is not their fault. Its mine.

I agree to all saying to good to be true. But man when you go to a DMV together and print you an AZ title on the spot with the VIN I believed to be true in my name you figure its safe. The bronco had the scan codes and everything. The guy is a John Doe to me but the lady on the title apprantly comes back as a criminal after the fact. Gina Marks

Heres the kicker now as well that vin (which I thought is mine) also got delivered 1-2 weeks ago literally about the same time when it all came to shine when they tried listing it. His carfax now I can only imagine is now started and his brand new 2023 Bronco raptor now has an owner (me in Arizona and 7k miles on it off the lot).

I have photos of the guy - his old plate - photos of the original title and registration he had

If anyone has an attorney that will actually listen to me (AZ) Do contact me PM

Honestly I don't see this as too good to be true at $75K. By cash only to you mean cold hard cash and not cashiers check?

 

[ONCEHADABRAPTOR]

Yeah but, why did you lose the Raptor (truck)? Even if you used the Bronco as a down payment, and had to finance part of it, it was yours? Why couldn’t you just refinance it again? So now there’s a 23 Raptor with mileage on it sitting on a dealership’s lot? What’s stopping you from getting it again?

The Bronco incident is convoluted enough, but losing the truck too is ridiculous, IMO.

They reversed my deal on the truck but I only put 400 miles on it. I ordered bedliner for it which I also gave to the dealer said here throw this on your truck as I planned on keeping it for some time. My tacoma I was going to prep for sale. Hood needs paint cv axle boot is torn needs alignment headlights fading (AZ). Just wanted a fresh start / work truck

 

[ONCEHADABRAPTOR]

My f150 I had
https://www.chapmanfordaz.com/detail/new/2023/Ford/F-150+SuperCrew/230507/CAU

 

[refade1]

This is insane. Whole story, OP since this an open investigation at this point you should close this thread as it can interfere with any future evidence that might exist.

 

[NatureMan]

@Ford Motor Company ask OP for his VIN.

 

[j_marinelli]

@Ford Motor Company ask OP for his VIN.

 

[stickshifthappy]

I bet it wasn't stolen from the factory, it was stolen from the dealer in VA. They probably bought it (financed in house) with a phony stolen ID, then drove it straight to AK and did the vin swap, found a vin that was being delivered in the next few days (how they did that who know, probably someone on the inside at the Ford plant). Then registered under the new vin in AK.

^^^^. this guy is waaaaaaaay to familiar with how this scam went down.... hmmmmmmmmmm. (LOL of course)

 

[chartzilla]

There is baggage with luggage tags visible in the back of the Braptor, is the luggage yours or theirs? If it's theirs, have the authorities run the baggage tag numbers? That would identify the people.

This person managed to convincingly create a fake/fraudulent title, VIN plate, registration paperwork, etc. Seems like fake IDs to use at the airport would be no problem for them. Not that it wouldn't be worth trying.

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