ADV vs OEM Hardtop Comparison

[mC.242]

I guess I'm the only one with a factory MIC 1.0 top that after almost two years is still leak-free, looks good, showing no lamination issues, etc.?
But hey, people that want to replace their soft-top need options and here is a fairly nice one. As long as you don't mind that giant panel to remove.

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[DUSTYcazOREGON]

Any plans for a 2-door hard top?

^^^THIS^^^
If my OEM falls apart, I WILL buy on of yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But...I have a 2 door. When will one be available? Thank you.

 

[Moto26]

I don't think ADV ever thought they were going to sell a ton of these to existing hard top owners. The target market is soft top owners, and there are plenty of us out there.

If Ford ever gets its act together and offers a complete hard top assembly over the parts counter, I highly doubt it will cost any less than ADV's top, but even if the price was similar, I would go with ADV in a heartbeat. A Ford top would have to be under $4K complete to even get a second look from me, and that's never going to happen...

 

[TCC]

As a soft top owner and had a strong need for a HT, ADV is the way I’d go. The foam core vs paper makes it a no brained. Who was the genius who though a paper core panel in an automotive application was a good idea…Ford? If the price was closer to $4K, I’d bite and put a Sunrider on.

 

[Bird Dog Off Road]

I have the Anderson Composites top and love it. I think it and the ADV options are both top notch and it comes down to what your preferences are. I prefer the more modular design is the reason I went with Anderson Composites. The cost difference for me was also a factor $6k vs $8.5K (shipping and all options). If I was going to go with the ADV, it would definitely be the modular version. It looks great and the slant design is something I'm sure a lot of folks will like.

 

[ths0002]

I may have missed it, but I'd love a video on your non-modular top vs modular, @ADV Fiberglass. I get the physical difference but would be interested in seeing the difference in cabin noise and other differences.

 

[North7]

Before too many people keep spreading misinformation about the "paper core, causing mold and separation" take a minute to understand what "Honeycomb composite material" is, it is used on every aircraft you have ever flown on, it is used on boats, spacecraft and yes, throughout the automotive industry.

It is not "paper" alone, as some would infer, every industry uses different types of materials to make up the Honeycomb, for automotive, one method is to use paper honeycombs that are coated with a mixture of waterproof sealer and reinforcing fibers.

No, I'm not being an apologist for the poor design decisions Ford and Webasto made in order to save cost on the MIC tops, but Honeycomb is not not one of those. It has more to do with the laminate thickness and the method of edge finishing.

Here is Webasto Automotive grade honeycomb description:

Polyurethane composites consist of paper honeycombs which are covered by a mixture of polyurethane and reinforcing fibers.
https://www.webasto-group.com/en/technologies-trends/lightweight/polyurethane-composites/

Here is a link for Hexcel, one of the major suppliers to the Aircraft, Spacecraft, Marine and Automotive industries, who use Honeycomb in all types of structures.
https://www.hexcel.com/Markets/

 

[Ksjrb03]

Before too many people keep spreading misinformation about the "paper core, causing mold and separation" take a minute to understand what "Honeycomb composite material" is, it is used on every aircraft you have ever flown on, it is used on boats, spacecraft and yes, throughout the automotive industry.

It is not "paper" alone, as some would infer, every industry uses different types of materials to make up the Honeycomb, for automotive, one method is to use paper honeycombs that are coated with a mixture of waterproof sealer and reinforcing fibers. On aircraft, every material goes through flammability testing to keep passengers safe.

No, I'm not being an apologist for the poor design decisions Ford and Webasto made in order to save cost on the MIC tops, but Honeycomb is not not one of those. It has more to do with the laminate thickness and the method of edge finishing.

Here is Webasto Automotive grade honeycomb description:


Here is a link for Hexcel, one of the major suppliers to the Aircraft, Spacecraft, Marine and Automotive industries, who use Honeycomb in all types of structures.
https://www.hexcel.com/Markets/

Bingo. The honeycomb has nothing to do with the garbage quality of the MIC top. It has everything to do with the paper thin laminate layer. Even the edge issues are caused by material thickness. Ford had weight and cost issues that won out in the end.

 

[Nogame24]

@ADV Fiberglass Will you all have any product/booths at SuperCel west this year. Id love to see thing in person.

 

[ADV Fiberglass]

@ADV Fiberglass Will you all have any product/booths at SuperCel west this year. Id love to see thing in person.

Not on the agenda at this time. I will approach out team about the idea though.

 

[TCC]

Honeycomb construction is fine, paper composites not so much. Aluminum, carbon fiber, aramid, etc don’t absorb moisture.

Before too many people keep spreading misinformation about the "paper core, causing mold and separation" take a minute to understand what "Honeycomb composite material" is, it is used on every aircraft you have ever flown on, it is used on boats, spacecraft and yes, throughout the automotive industry.

It is not "paper" alone, as some would infer, every industry uses different types of materials to make up the Honeycomb, for automotive, one method is to use paper honeycombs that are coated with a mixture of waterproof sealer and reinforcing fibers.

No, I'm not being an apologist for the poor design decisions Ford and Webasto made in order to save cost on the MIC tops, but Honeycomb is not not one of those. It has more to do with the laminate thickness and the method of edge finishing.

Here is Webasto Automotive grade honeycomb description:


Here is a link for Hexcel, one of the major suppliers to the Aircraft, Spacecraft, Marine and Automotive industries, who use Honeycomb in all types of structures.
https://www.hexcel.com/Markets/

 

[North7]

Honeycomb construction is fine, paper composites not so much. Aluminum, carbon fiber, aramid, etc don’t absorb moisture.

Here is the part of my post you deleted, you know the part where is says "polyurethane", which is a waterproof coating for the paper core.

Here is Webasto Automotive grade honeycomb description:

Polyurethane composites consist of paper honeycombs which are covered by a mixture of polyurethane and reinforcing fibers.
https://www.webasto-group.com/en/technologies-trends/lightweight/polyurethane-composites/

Any water intrusion into the MIC tops is from the thin plastic laminate cracking and cut finished edges. The original design was for rolled edges to allow better sealing but Ford and Webasto changed that to save production time.

 

[GreenMtnBronco]

Before too many people keep spreading misinformation about the "paper core, causing mold and separation" take a minute to understand what "Honeycomb composite material" is, it is used on every aircraft you have ever flown on, it is used on boats, spacecraft and yes, throughout the automotive industry.

It is not "paper" alone, as some would infer, every industry uses different types of materials to make up the Honeycomb, for automotive, one method is to use paper honeycombs that are coated with a mixture of waterproof sealer and reinforcing fibers.

No, I'm not being an apologist for the poor design decisions Ford and Webasto made in order to save cost on the MIC tops, but Honeycomb is not not one of those. It has more to do with the laminate thickness and the method of edge finishing.

Here is Webasto Automotive grade honeycomb description:


Here is a link for Hexcel, one of the major suppliers to the Aircraft, Spacecraft, Marine and Automotive industries, who use Honeycomb in all types of structures.
https://www.hexcel.com/Markets/

I think this is not an apples to apples comparison. The honeycomb used in aircraft control surfaces is typically fiberglass, composite or aluminum. often interior components are made with nomex paperboard honeycomb that is sealed with a laminate, eg. epoxy, etc. The ADV video clearly showed that the paper in the factory top was not a laminate product, if it was, it would not have absorbed the water.

 

[Broncobadlands2023]

This thread reminds me why I love my Jeep. A 6K after market top is ridiculous and should be an embarrassment for Ford.

 

[Area51BS]

I don’t see an issue with the 2 piece vs 4 piece regarding going topless. It’s either all off or none in my opinion. Both are a pain. That’s what nice about the soft top.
The slant isn’t too dramatic. I have a feeling all the aftermarket tops, particularly the hard top are slanted so they don’t appear to be a Ford copy causing some legal or monetary issue.
The construction of ADV is so much better. The OEM is obviously designed with cost in mind first. I’m a soft top owner and they could do better there too. But did design a cool top.

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