Another Broken Axle / CV Joint

[contented]

I've seen so many build threads adding lifts and bigger tires. Seems everyone does it, right? Originally intended to do the same when we ordered an outer banks w/o sas. But after much fussing and fretting about this very topic, we changed our order to a badlands w/ sasquatch. Everything is designed to work together including not only drive shafts, cv joints, axles, axle ratios, 35" tires, etc but also abs, traction control, emergency braking and so forth. And full warranty.

I spent a fair amount of time researching this topic on Jeep threads. Horror stories abound. My take on the bottom line was, if you're going to lift, do it right (costly) and even then, things will wear out much faster. It seemed to be an accepted and expensive fact of life.

To me, the OP is a cautionary tale. I'm staying stock.

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[da_jokker]

I'm not an expert on suspension geometry. However I think there's a flaw in some folks thinking.

Of course stock suspension has a high and low "range"... It was designed to generally run at a specific angle.

So sure you're tired tucks up under, or drops down but then quickly recovers back to its designed position.

When you're off-roading, and twisting things up, you're doing it slowly.

So when you lift the stock suspension and change that "default angle"... And now you're driving down the freeway speed with this angle that was only supposed to be momentarily....well eventually ....

 

[rrknapp]

It has been written about on this forum already, but if you want to look through fords part system yourself you can. This is a pretty easy to navigate link https://parts.lakelandford.com/p/Fo...rol-Arm-Front--Lower/105745267/MB3Z3079A.html.

The spring/shock is different and the axle housing is different with SAS. The steering rack also has different part numbers, but all other components are the SAME. Same part numbers for arms and axles.

Edit: After some more digging, it looks like I was wrong. It appears that there was some media release that claimed that all axle shafts were the same that was repeated here, but they do have different part numbers.
So it looks like the control arms are the same between models, but rack, axles, and half shafts do change.

The part link you provide appears to be for an AWD Bronco Sport. Which brings up a good point. What a crazy/confusing naming convention for the Bronco. It's the most confusing of any series of all time. What is the correct term for new Bronco? Dealerships say "you mean The "Big" Bronco". Any way, If I type in my wife's VIN to provided link, I get no parts.

 

[WuNgUn]

Just stopped by to see if a lift was installed... Lol

 

[710-oil-614]

They called my wife to tell her Rough Country lift had changed the geometry and it will happen again. Here we go!!!........ trying to explain that geometry hasn't changed and the 2 inch spacers are a cheaper way to achieve the same lift as the stock 2 inch longer coil-overs. They will get back to me regarding warranty. I said fix it and I'll fight warranty later. The estimate for changing 1 CV axle is $1,100. Let's see where this ends up.

Any predictions?
Maybe, just maybe, they do the right thing. Although the tech knows nothing about lift geometry, he does admit Ford intended this vehicle to be modified. To be continued............

So I would actually disagree that the spacers don't impact geometry, I would never put spacers on my Bronco or Tacoma to achieve a lift just for looks.

When you add a spacer to your suspension you are now occupying 2" of space that your coil spring used to occupy - in turn limiting travel. Let's say your shock has 8 inches of travel - 4 inches up and 4 inches down. Tossing a 2" spacer in at the top is going to reduce your up travel marginally but will limit the down travel significantly.

That extra pressure from the decreased down travel exerts force on the CV axle.

If you were turning on it with 35s while the front was engaged you were putting it under strain.

Should it have broken? Probably not. Is it surprising that it did? No.

 

[rrknapp]

Why do you say this? With a small spring puck spacer to equal the lift of the sasquatch, everything would be identical geometry wise. Same control arm geometry, same axle shafts, same tie rod, same lengths, same angles, same droop.

The front axle internals would be weaker, but outside of that and the gear ratios, your geometries would be identical and I do not see how it would be any more stressful than the SAS.

Thank you! YOU ARE 100% CORRECT, and all the automotive engineers agree. I don't know why this is so confusing for some. A 2" spacer is a perfectly good/cheap alternative for someone after a specific look. Whether they leave to pavement or not.

 

[710-oil-614]

Thank you! YOU ARE 100% CORRECT, and all the automotive engineers agree. I don't know why this is so confusing for some. A 2" spacer is a perfectly good/cheap alternative for someone after a specific look. Whether they leave to pavement or not.

LOL till you snap CV axle on gravel....

At least it looks good sitting there.

 

[Mr. Nice]

Thank you! YOU ARE 100% CORRECT, and all the automotive engineers agree. I don't know why this is so confusing for some. A 2" spacer is a perfectly good/cheap alternative for someone after a specific look. Whether they leave to pavement or not.

That maybe true but you are going to lose the warranty on said items...

 

[ryridesmotox]

Reading this thread is making me nervous to put 285/70/17’s on instead of the 255/70/18’s that are on my OBX.

Mine is mainly an on-road vehicle. We will be doing some light off-roading at most.

I have 285/70r17s on mine. I'm still stock suspension height though. They seem to be fine. I have have about 2k miles on it as it sits, about 3 offroad trips to some mild/intermediate trails. If you drive reasonably it's not a big deal. I don't hammer the throttle and bounce over stuff.

 

[Aviboy97]

I have 285/70r17s on mine. I'm still stock suspension height though. They seem to be fine. I have have about 2k miles on it as it sits, about 3 offroad trips to some mild/intermediate trails. If you drive reasonably it's not a big deal. I don't hammer the throttle and bounce over stuff.

I don’t see an increase in 16mm changing the cv geometry at all. I don’t plan on lifting it. Only added stress would be extra weight of the tires/wheels, which isn’t all that much.

 

[EveryDayBronco]

Reading this thread is making me nervous to put 285/70/17’s on instead of the 255/70/18’s that are on my OBX.

Mine is mainly an on-road vehicle. We will be doing some light off-roading at most.

Is there a 255/75r18 tire that you like?

Changing from 70 to 75 increases diameter and often that is enough to achieve that desired look to fill the wheel well without messing things up.

 

[Aviboy97]

Is there a 255/75r18 tire that you like?

Changing from 70 to 75 increases diameter and often that is enough to achieve that desired look to fill the wheel well without messing things up.

Na…I already have my tires. Just waiting for my rims to arrive.

 

[ryridesmotox]

I don’t see an increase in 16mm changing the cv geometry at all. I don’t plan on lifting it. Only added stress would be extra weight of the tires/wheels, which isn’t all that much.

Yea I wasn't saying the CV is different. But the other reply, you said you were reluctant to get a 33 inch-ish tire. The CV angles should be the same since the suspension is the same. Just the added weight of the wheel and different offset (I'm running 0 offset) will increase some of the stress on components, but not significantly. I don't want to thread jack the post but I've got several pics in the velocity blue bronco thread if you want to see. 33s are about perfect to my eye.

 

[BlueBronco]

The lift increases the angle for the joints in the drive shafts and as a result they break.

These guys have a fix to prevent it from happening,

Why is this New Ford Bronco Part Failing? - YouTube

Did you watch the video? The fix they talk about is a larger bushing used to keep the steering rack engaged and prevent stripping. The other product on their website reinforces the inner tie-rods. Neither prevent cv axles from breaking due to increased angles.

 

[vrtical]

Thank you! YOU ARE 100% CORRECT, and all the automotive engineers agree. I don't know why this is so confusing for some. A 2" spacer is a perfectly good/cheap alternative for someone after a specific look. Whether they leave to pavement or not.

BTW I am an engineer, and you should join the group of people that should read the book I posted, it wasn't initially directed at you but now it definitely applies.

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