And here I thought the manual transmission was a no charge option for an anti-theft device.
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So just a few things. I've not checked for sure, because I'm not going to get into an internet bench racing argument, but regarding the Mustang, you are comparing a 6-sp manual to a 10 speed automatic, so the gear ratios are different between the two transmissions, which can make up some of the 500 milliseconds in 0 -60 time in addition to shift speed. Second, DTC transmissions shift faster than most of the best automatics, which is what I said. Third, the version of the Ford 10-speed auto probably has different gear ratios than the version used in the Mustang, and I'd bet the New Bronco version has different shift programming than the version in the Mustang, since the New Bronco is a truck primarily designed for off-roading and the Mustang GT is designed for street bragging rights against the Camaro.
But none of that crap contradicts the point I made, which is in real terms, the faster shifting capability of the 10-speed makes no major difference in how the New Bronco will perform on the street or trail in either real-world MPG, vehicle speed or driving dynamics. And more to my point, the 10-speed doesn't know when to shift based on when the driver may want it to shift in relation to how he is driving in the traffic environment he is in. So in real-word conditions, where the 10-sp auto is in high gear and low engine RPM to maximize fuel efficiency, if the driver wants to dig into the engines powerband to make a driving move, he can anticipate and time a gear change, where the 10-sp auto's software takes a few milliseconds to figure out it needs a lower gear to get the engine power requested by the driver's right foot. So I'd wager the increased speed of the 10-sp auto's shift is out paced by the driver's decision to put the manual in the correct gear ahead of time and in conjunction to his intended driving move.
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I agree with you. I think the 2.3L's specs will adequately power the New Bronco. Maybe with the auto and 'Squatch with 35"s it might be a little lagging, but I'd bet the diff ratio makes up for it. I've not researched the 2.3L much. My unanswered question is how the manual trans will deal with turbo lag. Computer controlled drivetrains with automatics can compensate for turbo lag.
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Ah, so it is (just checked). I stand corrected. I've only been looking at 2-doors. Interesting the Base 4-door only comes in automatic, where the other lower trims have the manual trans.
I agree. I have the new Ranger now with the 2.3 auto....... it has plenty of power and pep. I love the engine. It’s the transmission that I do not love. I mentioned this on another thread but worth mentioning again.... it wants to stay in the higher gears all the time and and sluggish down shifting. I can’t say how they will set this up with the Bronco (hopefully differently) but it gets annoying quick when you are going 30 MPH on a flat road and the transmission is in like 8 gear and hit a steep hill and it takes like 2-3 seconds for it to downshift to maintain your speed. I lose speed quickly. Anyway I’m getting the manual for sure.
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On the Bronco reveal day I was certain I was getting an auto. 30 years of driving and I wanted something a little less involved with this purchase. My first car that I learned to drive on was a manual and I’ve talked about that car so often (‘65 Mustang) that my son who starts driving next year wants me to teach him to drive a stick shift. Then my girlfriend asks why I’m not getting a stick shift (she’s had manuals before.) So now I’m getting the 7speed manual to teach my son on. And when I don’t want to shift I’ll just make him or my girlfriend drive. ?
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Too late, because THAT'S MY JAM.
I'm comparing the offered auto vs. the offered manual. There's no sense in doing anything else.
But it's not! You said:
Torque converter automatics can actually "shift faster" to gain track speed advantage.
Nope.
https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...21/mediakit/21_Bronco_Prelim_Tech_Specs_1.pdf
https://media.ford.com/content/dam/...ses/Mustang/2018Ford_Mustang_Tech_Spec_EU.pdf
Well sure, but I don't know what that has to do with the point you were trying to make. The Bronco has different drive modes that will affect transmission behavior, including a Sport mode. There's no reason to believe the Bronco's auto will be locked into some kind of awful slow-shifting hell-prison.
You didn't make a point.
And this presupposition is based on...all of the performance data that's been released? All of the instrumented tests that have been performed? All of the back-to-back comparison tests that have been conducted? Or just your hopes and dreams?
Two things.
1. You're on the highway, a gap opens up suddenly and you want to get in there. What takes longer - immediately matting the gas to the floor and letting the trans kick down and take you there, or letting off the gas, pushing in the clutch, selecting the proper gear, bringing the revs up to the appropriate level, letting out the clutch, then accelerating? 10 times out of the 10 the auto will kick down and get you there faster.
2. Paddles. You see a gap coming up that you want to hit? Kick it down a few gears with the paddles and hit the gap with all of the power you need. Have you never driven an auto with a manual mode? In my car, even in automatic mode, I can bump the paddle and have it kick down a few gears, and it will hold that gear for a bit before returning to normal. Super easy to anticipate any need for a lower gear.
Look, I'm not some auto transmission fanatic. I'm specifically not getting a Bronco because they won't give me the V6 with the stick. But there's no quantitative reason to prefer the stick. The auto will be faster, smoother to drive, better offroad, and get better mileage. The stick will be more fun. It doesn't need to be anything else, and we don't need to try and represent it as anything other than a preference for fun.
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12 pages in, I don't reckon there's much for me to add to the discussion, but for what it's worth, I wouldn't even be considering the Bronco as a replacement for my Jeep (in spite of removable top/doors) if there was no stick. If I were a rockcrawler, things might be different, but I just enjoy driving a stick in everyday life.
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Not seeing any paddles in the Bronco. Yeah, I'll beat an auto trans to a downshift because I can read the traffic and it can't. If you think otherwise then your experience with manuals is not as deep as you need to be having this discussion.
Posting the specs on the GT's manual and auto trans makes my point. The time to 60 is more related to the gear ratios between a 6-speed and a 10-speed.
Sorry, but I did specifically say DCT shifts faster than torque-converter automatics (see below), your quote... Have a great thanksgiving.
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Best reason I've heard yet ?
It will keep all my daughters teeny bopper friends from wating to/being able to drive it!
LOL
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That’s where I think the low end torque of the 2.7 is a great match for the auto and the 2.3 might not be as good. My 2.7 never feels sluggish, waiting for an up shift. I don’t think it’s that the transmission shifts faster , I think the 2.7 just spools and pulls at lower rpm, mitigating the issue. Manual would be better, just have no interest in a manual these days. Traffic sucks and driving a manual in traffic sucks worse IMO. Pushing me hard to the 2.7, although the 2.3 is still interesting to me for sure.
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