Technophobes: How Scared Is Too Scared?

[BroncoMike]

A guy buying a new vehicle which he unloads after a few years, might consider certain items as "advancements". On the other hand, a guy (often me) buying the vehicle later down the road, might be cursing those so called "advancements", lol.

This is a great point, one that comes up often when looking at 6-10 year old cars - replacing tire pressure sensors. The system is a great idea, but once the batteries in them little suckers wear out, it can be an expensive proposition to replace them. The aftermarket is stepping up, but I had a Lexus that the dealer wanted $600 for 5 new sensors, swap them out, and associate them to the car's ECU.

Now, this issue isn't the end of the world - it's a little orange light on the dash, and we somehow survived for decades of automotive operation without such warning systems, but not the same for emissions sensors. Throw a CEL, and you can't pass smog in many of the places that have it. Fortunately, the newer systems are usually very easy to diagnose with the proper tools - in the case of Fords, the tools are very inexpensive yet extremely capable. There are still some issues, or combinations of issues, that can make diagnosis difficult, and intermittent electrical/electronic problems have a greater impact compared to the mechanical control systems.

The bottom line is there will be a market for good diagnostic technicians (mechanics) for the foreseeable future. It's just a different skill set and array of tools... if an old-school Diesel guy like me can learn my way around Forscan and canbus systems, anybody can.

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[Fosters]

I'm an IT guy and love technology, and I'll be quick to jump on the give me the latest and greatest technology... What gets annoying is when you go to modify stuff - I can never leave anything alone. Stereo systems - I'm sorry, even the Bang & Olufsen system in my F450 doesn't come close in quality to the one I specced out/pieced together/designed for the 200k mile 2004 mustang jalopy. I would upgrade the stereo in the truck, but truth be told, it's a royal pain in the ass with how integrated it is with the rest of the vehicle. I imagine in 20 years when these vehicles are starting to get long in the tooth and a stereo stops working and takes out vital functions with it; and you can't just get one out of a junkyard that'll fit because you need the right firmware and need as-built programming, and all kind of other junk - that's the part that I hate. I guess that makes me a technophobe in some people's eyes; but in reality, I'd love it if less proprietary and more open stuff was used...

Imagine if the actual stereos in cars had the audio cables using RCAs (or at least the somewhat standard in Europe on older cars - those ISO harnesses), and a USB or ethernet or something else fairly standard as the data cable...

The nav unit in my old Rubicon did record the offroad movements and left breadcrumbs - very useful for someone as directionally challenged as me. At the same time I also remember running like hell when seeing a rain storm start and remembering I had the top down... Had it been an old TJ/YJ/CJ, that wouldn't have been a problem.

Last but not least, when it comes to offroad tech... yes, have all of the "modes" for those people who need em.. but let me pick everything in manual mode too. Plenty of videos of subarus that boast how great their AWD system is, when they get hung up in places where a 500 dollar cherokee can get through just fine because it just lets the driver drive and doesn't interfere thinking it knows better for you.

Technology is good, but it can have its downsides.

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

..... but let me pick everything in manual mode too. Plenty of videos of subarus that boast how great their AWD system is, when they get hung up in places where a 500 dollar cherokee can get through just fine because it just lets the driver drive and doesn't interfere thinking it knows better for you. ....

Plenty of "smart" technology only needs to be smarter than the average idiot to earn its title.

 

[indio22]

^Words of someone who hasn’t worked on a carbed vehicle with smog control. The only one I’ve worked on is my buddy’s FJ60, fuck that noise. All the vacuum hoses and rats nest... so damn obnoxious.

Actually I have worked on some of those carb smog vehicles - and agree with you. I own a 1985 CJ-7 that had the dreaded Carter BBD smog carb. Spaghetti nest of hoses/wires along with those sliding fuel meters in the carb that can malfunction. I swapped for a Weber carb. You won't find me defending those intermediate 80's carb setups, when they were trying to meet modern emissions standards and fuel efficiency, by attaching all manner of sensor and controls to carbs. But my 1970 CJ-5 did not have those items. It was amazingly simply and bullet proof.

The stuff I'm working through currently with my 1998 fuel injected TJ, I didn't have to worry about on my 1970 CJ-5. I'm about ready now to make a homemade "smoke tester" (see YouTube), to help track down a tricky vacuum leak in the emission system of the TJ. Unfortunately the trouble code doesn't tell the user exactly where is the leak. Could be (fuel cap, air line from gas tank, issue with charcoal canister, leak in connections from manifold/canister/purge solenoid/pump etc. My CJ-5 simply didn't have that stuff to break down and worry about.

 

[PAPA old school]

weight is not my issue, its the electronic crap that is continually plaguing us in the vehicles now . less tech the better. my tire sensor was 80 bucks to tell me i had a low tire that wasnt low. now my drivers door lock wont lock , everything else still works , another 80 buck part. plus labor, o2 sensors and check engine lights,
I'm old school , i know how to set a set of points with a matchbook. i can change plugs and not hope they dont break off in an aluminum head, that dang coil over plug that plaged me in my 5.4 titan was the reason i dont own it anymore, Cant tell you how many of them i changed I can change oil and check my oil, and radiator levels, check my tranny fluid, check my differential fluids, Own lots of tools and know how to use them. It seems like they dont want us to do anything but take it to the dealership.

Now with that said , i like locks, tilt, cruse, electric windows,.the basics could care less about heated or cooled seats, (buy cloth). back up camera would be nice but i would like to actuate it when i want to check my load and trailer.while im driving occasionally. everything else is a load of junk to me. pitch and tilt is useless, everything else i need is on my cell phone. all i want to tow is a flat bottom boat, or a 4 wheeler trailer, if i want to tow a house ill fire up the 1 ton! I would have never used my bronco.

 

[aplm7]

weight is not my issue, its the electronic crap that is continually plaguing us in the vehicles now . less tech the better. my tire sensor was 80 bucks to tell me i had a low tire that wasnt low. now my drivers door lock wont lock , everything else still works , another 80 buck part. plus labor, o2 sensors and check engine lights,
I'm old school , i know how to set a set of points with a matchbook. i can change plugs and not hope they dont break off in an aluminum head, that dang coil over plug that plaged me in my 5.4 titan was the reason i dont own it anymore, Cant tell you how many of them i changed I can change oil and check my oil, and radiator levels, check my tranny fluid, check my differential fluids, Own lots of tools and know how to use them. It seems like they dont want us to do anything but take it to the dealership.

Now with that said , i like locks, tilt, cruse, electric windows,.the basics could care less about heated or cooled seats, (buy cloth). back up camera would be nice but i would like to actuate it when i want to check my load and trailer.while im driving occasionally. everything else is a load of junk to me. pitch and tilt is useless, everything else i need is on my cell phone. all i want to tow is a flat bottom boat, or a 4 wheeler trailer, if i want to tow a house ill fire up the 1 ton! I would have never used my bronco.

just today, Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car. Or just that they are going to cut back on total count of under used tech in general for the cars.

http://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-ceo-jim-hackett-says-car-prices-cant-keep-rising-forever/

 

[BroncoBuyer]

just today, Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car. Or just that they are going to cut back on total count of under used tech in general for the cars.

http://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-ceo-jim-hackett-says-car-prices-cant-keep-rising-forever/

Great! get rid of Dual zone climate control. Sick of dicking with multiple blend door issues.
Ditch powered tail gates and suv hatches. They operate too slow and more for show than a useful necessity.
Get real with auto stop start, just put it on a timer, if your idling for more than 2 minutes fine, but to shut down every stinking time you stop is dumb.
Stop with power folding rear seats, if a soccer mom can’t pull a knob or strap to fold the 3rd row seat down to put groceries In the back of the car without a bunch of electronics and electric motors we all have to pay for, she shouldn’t have a license to drive.
Stop with the pop out sprayers for cameras, we do not need James Bond vehicles with all the tubing, pumps, and pop open gimmicky sprayer doors on all of our cameras. That stuff is a major pain to fix when it fails. That brings up cameras too. I mean how stinking many cameras do we really need to successfully drive a car or truck? I think the new Superduty has like 7 cameras or some crazy crap like that. Seriously, how much does that add to an already astronomical $75k truck?
why can’t a guy get a nice 3/4 ton truck equipped with some nice leather and a diesel engine without buying an extra 30k worth of nonsense like a “power” sliding rear windows and automatic trailer backing with electric steering anymore?

 

[Carolina Jim]

Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car.

D A M N - this is a pretty big deal. In fact, we've beat this topic to death right hear on this forum. In the interview Hackett referenced increase in average dollar amount per vehicle sold - after exiting the cheap sedan market. But I would also think the average customer vehicle ownership time will expand - with a lineup dominated by 150s, Rangers, Broncos, & Mustangs. As we've opined here, much of that tech gets a bit ripe after 7-9 years.

Kinda surprised we don't have more forum members popping corks...I imagine the next 4-5 weeks will be devoid of significant breaking news.

 

[bbostic5]

just today, Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car. Or just that they are going to cut back on total count of under used tech in general for the cars.

http://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-ceo-jim-hackett-says-car-prices-cant-keep-rising-forever/

If Ford follows through on this, it's enormous news.

 

[Sherminiator]

Get real with auto stop start, just put it on a timer, if your idling for more than 2 minutes fine, but to shut down every stinking time you stop is dumb.

That isn't going away...it helps save gas and its a nice improvement for companies CAFE ratings.

My wife's 2017 Escape has it and it was slightly annoying at first, but I barely notice it now and once you take your foot off the brake, the engine is on.

 

[indio22]

That isn't going away...it helps save gas and its a nice improvement for companies CAFE ratings.

My wife's 2017 Escape has it and it was slightly annoying at first, but I barely notice it now and once you take your foot off the brake, the engine is on.

Auto start/stop can be a plus for the manufacturer overall CAFE and bottom line, where they are often trying to bump CAFE even by smaller percentages. Because of regulation and what they are doing with the various vehicles and playing with overall CAFE, the fleet manufacturer can get a cost benefit.

But auto start/stop is not necessarily a big plus for the individual owners. Especially longer term and used vehicle owners. Because the fuel savings for an individual not worried about fleet CAFE might be rather small, with the negative of having to replace significantly more expensive parts down the road including battery and starter. In some ways the owner is paying extra for the manufacturer's CAFE benefit.

 

[Sherminiator]

But auto start/stop is not necessarily a big plus for the individual owners. Especially longer term and used vehicle owners. Because the fuel savings for an individual not worried about fleet CAFE might be rather small, with the negative of having to replace significantly more expensive parts down the road including battery and starter. In some ways the owner is paying extra for the manufacturer's CAFE benefit.

In the almost 30 years I've owned cars, I've never had to replace a starter in car. Batteries yes, but pretty much anything made past 2005 eats batteries with in 3 years of owning it due the increase use of electronics. Starters on Stop/start vehicles use a supercapacitor to store energy to start the car back up and they've been beefed up to handle additional start cycles. So far after almost 45K miles my wife's Escape hasn't had any issues with it.

Typical usage cycle for a new car before it has any major mechanical issues is roughly 10 years/15K miles per year. I can give two shits about used vehicles since I buy new and Ford doesn't make $$ off used car sales.

 

[indio22]

In the almost 30 years I've owned cars, I've never had to replace a starter in car. Batteries yes, but pretty much anything made past 2005 eats batteries with in 3 years of owning it due the increase use of electronics. Starters on Stop/start vehicles use a supercapacitor to store energy to start the car back up and they've been beefed up to handle additional start cycles. So far after almost 45K miles my wife's Escape hasn't had any issues with it.

Typical usage cycle for a new car before it has any major mechanical issues is roughly 10 years/15K miles per year. I can give two shits about used vehicles since I buy new and Ford doesn't make $$ off used car sales.

But other people do buy used. I have several old cars. As I've mentioned before, there can be a large gulf between persons who are typically buying new and unloading aging vehicles ... compared to persons who buy used down the road.

I do give many "shits" about used vehicles, including components such as starters and batteries, which I have replaced on various vehicles. Beefed up higher performance starters, higher capacity and multiple batteries with related additional components, will typically cost more to replace down the road. And these additional systems can offer more things to go wrong down the road.

If you are unloading vehicles before warranties run out and have good luck after with starters etc fine. Works for you - but not for others who follow a different ownership model.

 

[Sherminiator]

But other people do buy used. I have several old cars. As I've mentioned before, there can be a large gulf between persons who are typically buying new and unloading aging vehicles ... compared to persons who buy used down the road.

I do give many "shits" about used vehicles, including components such as starters and batteries, which I have replaced on various vehicles. Beefed up higher performance starters, higher capacity and multiple batteries with related additional components, will typically cost more to replace down the road. And these additional systems can offer more things to go wrong down the road.

If you are unloading vehicles before warranties run out and have good luck after with starters etc fine. Works for you - but not for others who follow a different ownership model.

Your missing the point-Ford isn't concerned about used car sales since they don't make money on them. The design components that should generally last 150K miles or about 10 years, which is reasonable for someone buying a new car. What happens after that really isn't of much concern to Ford itself.

 

[PNW_Bronco94]

Your missing the point-Ford isn't concerned about used car sales since they don't make money on them. The design components that should generally last 150K miles or about 10 years, which is reasonable for someone buying a new car. What happens after that really isn't of much concern to Ford itself.

I think you guys are talking past each other. Ford may not care about their stuff lasting more than 10 years, but a lot of consumers do. This is especially true for something like the BroncoBronco, which appeals to an enthusiast base that is probably more likely to hold on to their Bronco for much longer than a typical Escape or Taurus owner. Those cars are throw away appliances, unlike (hopefully) the Bronco.

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