Why Doesn't Ford use 35" KO2s on Sasquatch instead of Goodyears?

[BroncocnorB]

I’m so happy I made the decision to buy a non squatch badlands. Also thanks to this thread the price reduction for Sasquatch takeoffs should happen in short order. Lol

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[toymaster]

The KO2 sux. As a self proclaimed tire snob, I'm extremely pleased of the factory SAS tires. It surprised the 'ell out of me. Even wrote a thread on here about rolling on marshmellows back when I took delivery but I have to say for the purpose I use the vehicle for no need for a heavy tire, it would be a waste, and the tires have performed exceedingly well. I have my eyes out for take-offs.

Oh, and you may ask what sux about the KO2? The sidewall, to lightweight and easy to damage.

 

[Sk3tchy]

Except in this case Goodyear had to make a special tire for Ford. Ford went with the Wrangler tire, but notice it says GOODYEAR twice instead of Wrangler, because they didn't want the Wrangler name on thier Bronco. Cant get those tires anywhere but a new factory build.

You can actually order the tires without the Wrangler name. You just have to search. I found them and I wish I remember at what retailer, but they were available.

 

[GroovyGeek]

Sorry man, but this has to be one of the most uninformed and statements I have seen in a while. The BF Goodrich KO2 is one of a small number of tires which has a 3 Peak Mountain Snow Flake (3PMSF) rating which means it was purpose built for severe snow usage--so. yes, it is absolutely targeted to snow. It is also an all-weather, all terrain tire that will undoubtedly be used in the rain and on asphalt.

Whether anyone likes them or not, they are one of the most popular all-terrain tires on the market and to also say they are not for asphalt is silly. Despite our desire otherwise, the vast majority of Bronco, Wrangler, and other "off-road" vehicles typically spend >95% of the time just driving them on asphalt.

Aside from the balancing issues that I encountered, KO2 tires actually perform exceptionally well on asphalt, just not wet or snowy asphalt. They remain the quietest and longest wearing all-terrain tires I have ever owned, but that is where their good attributes end.

A review of I did of them in January 2023:

Vehicle = 2019 JLUR with 3.6L, ZF8, & 5.13 Gearing
Empty Weight = 5700 pounds
Lift = 3.5" MC Game Changer
Shocks = 2.5" Fox DSC
Wheels = Icon Alpha; 17x8.5 with 0 offset/4.75" backspace

Tire = BF Goodrich KO2 A/T
Size = 37x12.50x17
Load Range = C
Inflated diameter (Unloaded) = 35.75" (@31 PSI)
Inflated diameter (Loaded) = 35.375" (@31 PSI)
Tread Depth = 15/32" (0 miles)
Tread Depth = 12/32" (35K miles)
Maintenance = 5 tire rotation and balance every 5K miles (more frequent balancing needed as they wear)

Experience:

On-Road (Good--when new):

- They will not stay balanced as they wear (at least not for long), more and more weight is needed to balance them and they do not stay balanced as long as other tires have. Rebalancing has been needed between rotations (Discount Tire - Road Force)
- They begin to lose their grip in the rain and snow after about 20-25K miles. I had to drive from Denver to Colorado Springs during the last big snowstorm (speed was greatly reduced due to the conditions) and they are all over the place. They have a 3 peak snow rating, but as they wear effectiveness is reduced on the highway and they will slide in the rain much faster than other tires.
- They are quiet; probably the quietest tire I have had except for Michelin LTX AT2's on my trucks.

Off-road (Jack of all trades and master of none--except maybe powdery snow):

- They work reasonably well in the snow, I have gone through really deep powdery snow and they handled it just fine.
- Loose, deep dry sand will typically find you close to stuck more often than not, wet sand is managed reasonably well.
- Thick clay based mud will find you stuck and flexing your winch muscles. The tread design does not clear sticky mud and you will find they become 4 slicks with zero grip in short order.
- Watery mud is cleared reasonably well, but they are no match for a true M/T.
- They handle rocks "ok", but they will slip and drag you out of your line on side angled inclines and declines.

Noise = 10 (even after 35K miles)
Wear = 9 (even with the weight of my JLUR)
Ride = 7 (9 at first; 4 after 35K miles)
Dry = 9 (even after 35K miles)
Wet = 6 (7 new; 4 after 35K miles)
Snow = 6 (8 off-road--even after 35K miles; 4 on-road after 35K miles)
Mud = 4 (2 in clay/heavy mud; 5 in all other mud)
Sand = 6 (4 in deep dry sand; 8 in wet sand)
Trail = 6 (they can slip in rocks on inclines and declines)
Look = 5 (nothing aggressive or sexy here)
Overall = 6.8
Would I buy again? = No (as a jack of all trades and master of none (except noise and perhaps wear) they are too expensive for what you are getting)

Hmmm ... You state

Aside from the balancing issues that I encountered, KO2 tires actually perform exceptionally well on asphalt, just not wet or snowy asphalt....They begin to lose their grip in the rain and snow after about 20-25K miles...They have a 3 peak snow rating, but as they wear effectiveness is reduced on the highway and they will slide in the rain much faster than other tires.

Which is exactly what I said in the context of what the poster I was responding to. He was complaining how they handle poorly when wet, and my statement was that putting KO2s on a Wrangler that is mostly used in wet road conditions was just a bad decision. We seem to be in violent agreement about that part.

 

[51Creature]

Most obvious would be price. But I am glad they didn’t use bfg either as they are garbage. I sell and install tires and falkens would have been great choice for all around weather and that’s what I quickly installed for my fall/winter/spring tire. Left the knock of wranglers to wear out during summer months.

 

[mattymik]

Given that Ford uses a variety of OEM tire brands on Bronco based on trim and suspension package, I doubt absolute lowest cost was the driving factor. It would certainly be cheaper to offer one tire manufacturer all the OEM volume regardless of size or suitability for a particular task. Rather I believe they selected the best compromise for each model based on the general usage patterns these vehicles are likely to see. Most Sasqustch equipped Bronco's (like mine) are still primarily used on road for commuting. Fitting a mass-market behicle with a highly specialized tire like an agressive Mud-Terrain would likely result in a high percentage of owners complaining, in forums like these, about noise, ride harshness, economy or fast wear. Conversely, they know the Bronco owner who will be using their vehicle off-road and in specific environments (desert, woods, mud, sand) will likely and happily fit a specialized tire and other components to fit their usage patterns. The Sas Goodyear Territory is a compromise; C load range so a bit lighter and less rolling resistance, somewhat aggressive tread pattern but certainly not a full-blown Mut-Terrain despite the MT brand, cost and certainly a brand name that inspires some degree of confidence from a typical buyer. When my Territory's wear out, I'll likely look at Toyo or Yokohama and perhaps BFG for a slightly more aggressive AT type tire but in the meanwhile am reasonably satisfied with the Goodyears given my usage.

This is a good, measured reply.

I'd say if you're asking "why did a corporation choose X for this mass-market product," the answer is always:

1. Cost (the Territory must be one of the lowest-cost options they could find)
2. Marketability (Goodyear has good brand value / recognition, even though a lot of hard-core wheelers don't like them)
3. Other public-facing metrics they're trying to optimize (e.g. weight, fuel economy)

I think most things are a combination of the trade-offs involved with those three, with cost often being the most important.

 

[Malcolm Robertson]

When I was in car sales, a 40 year veteran of the industry explained to me that all manufacturers tend to put lighter, softer tires on their vehicles to increase gas mileage. This allows the companies to get their cars out in the face of ever more unreasonable CAFE standards. When the time comes to replace your tires, you might notice a small, but appreciable dip in your mpg.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I am responding to the part where you @GroovyGeek (not the OP) said:

The KO2 was never targeted to rain and snow. It is a desert tire at home predominantly in the Southwest. Putting them on a Wrangler intended to be used under such conditions was your decision (and mistake).

The KO2 was absolutely targeted for snow use, so why wouldn't someone purchase them and use them in snow? Ergo, not a mistake, an informed decision based upon the tire's rating and design intent.

How they actually perform is a different conversation.

 

[Tex]

Having spent more of my life on 35"+ tires than not, I can unequivocally state that these tires are the only ones that didn't feel like 35's. They feel like street tires and have none of the bad manners that tires this size or larger have. When you factor in the street qualities you get from these, offroad performance is phenomenal. They're not fantastic offroad by any means, but you can kiss all of the pavement benefits goodbye if you step up to any other tire that would offer better performance offroad. It's an awesome tire for anyone that wants to retain both a 35" tire and road manners. I only wish they offered similar tire construction in 37" and 40" tires.

If you want to complain about Ford not using BFG's, you could've suggested a decent tire like the KR3 or red labels, I would've gone to bat with you on that, but not for the outdated hot garbage that is the KO2's

 

[Nanook]

BFG was already supplying Ford with what would have been the exact same tire and probably had agreements in place to supply X number of tires for Raptor F-150 production numbers as well as the new (at the time) C Rated 37” tire.
I assume that Most likely the KO3 was already in development and BFG didn’t want to ramp production and chose to allocate their spend on the KO3 project. Unfortunately, the forth coming pandemic and supply chain crisis set in further delays.
I am in the camp that BFG made the decision easy for Ford to look at other Manufacturers

 

[sfs1963]

Having owned 2 Broncos 1 non SAS Badlands with BfG's and current SAS Heritage both tires suck. Both rock throwers and the Goodyears lugs are to close together to be true mud tires. Give me a set of Big Dicks which has now been absorbed by Mickey Thompson or Firestones any Day

 

[Nanook]

I don’t think this was intended to ask opinions of what is the best All Terrain tire. But it quickly got hijacked 3 pages ago lol

I read the post: Why Goodyear when BFG was already supplying the equivalent tire to Ford?

 

[MNBigfoot]

Considering half think KOs are garbage and half think the GYs are garbage, I think Ford made a wise move going with the cheaper/lighter of the two crappy tires.

 

[Beach_Bum]

The KO2 sux. As a self proclaimed tire snob, I'm extremely pleased of the factory SAS tires. It surprised the 'ell out of me. Even wrote a thread on here about rolling on marshmellows back when I took delivery but I have to say for the purpose I use the vehicle for no need for a heavy tire, it would be a waste, and the tires have performed exceedingly well. I have my eyes out for take-offs.

Oh, and you may ask what sux about the KO2? The sidewall, to lightweight and easy to damage.

Oh, the irony to use that as a reason why the KO2 "sux" in a response defending the GY tire. You do realize that the GY has only a 2-ply sidewall?

Just look to the Off-Roadeo location in Texas where they have a hill named Goodyear Hill after all the tires it is has claimed due to the sidewall getting gashed. Stop at the bottom of Texas Two-Step and see the mound of rubber mulch as the tread blocks flake off.

 

[diablo0813]

(lower weight = better fuel economy they can advertise)

Man, I wish one of the bigger (non-sponsored) YT channels would conduct a test showing comparisons of all the most popular brands/models for this.

I am getting to where I'll need new tires for the next snow season and I had my heart set on the KO2's, but I'm not trying to willfully tank my MPG.

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