+193 RWHP dyno by 2023 Bronco Raptor w/ ZFG Racing 93 Octane and E50 Custom Tune

[7spdbadlands]

488whp out of a bone stock 3.0l on pump gas is insane. Nicely done! Now when do we get to see a 1/4 mile drag

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[swamp2]

Not sure a public forum is the best place for this IMO. Most companies don't post their proprietary information for everyone to see. Maybe a private message or phone call would be better suited. Just my opinion

I disagree. If a company has a good product and or service, in a market with need, it can and will sell. A description of a result doesn't have to give away important hard earned capabilities or perhaps "secrets". I'm reasonably sure this information can't be patented nor trademarked. If other competitors develop the same capabilities and results then prices will naturally drop and this is inevitable in the tuning domain.

The plethora of tuners out there all know most of the basics for engine tuning, NA and FI. There just isn't much secret or proprietary. Sure some tuners like ZFG are demonstrably better and faster and are great at pushing the envelope.

Functionally speaking trans mods have more inputs and outputs from the user experience, as power (dyno results) is ultimately just one smooth curve vs rpm. Sure there is also part throttle responses and turbo lag, but regardless the end results are simple - peaks and shapes chsnge. For the reasons and questions I outlined prior, transmissions have more potential changes - every up shift and downshift combo and multiple modes, up and down hill behavior, WOT and part throttle behavior, shift times and firmness, braking triggers, etc.. Inquiring minds want to know!

Thus there is no reason vendors shouldn't be willing to share a similar level of information about trans software. Again results NOT methodologies/techniques.

 

[swamp2]

488whp out of a bone stock 3.0l on pump gas is insane. Nicely done! Now when do we get to see a 1/4 mile drag

Assuming the dyno is accurate and representative, it will cut it down 1.5 sec. and thus will be about 13 flat. A chance to break into 12.x.

 

[ZFGracing]

I disagree. If a company has a good product and or service, in a market with need, it can and will sell. A description of a result doesn't have to give away important hard earned capabilities or perhaps "secrets". I'm reasonably sure this information can't be patented nor trademarked. If other competitors develop the same capabilities and results then prices will naturally drop and this is inevitable in the tuning domain.

The plethora of tuners out there all know most of the basics for engine tuning, NA and FI. There just isn't much secret or proprietary. Sure some tuners like ZFG are demonstrably better and faster and are great at pushing the envelope.

Functionally speaking trans mods have more inputs and outputs from the user experience, as power (dyno results) is ultimately just one smooth curve vs rpm. Sure there is also part throttle responses and turbo lag, but regardless the end results are simple - peaks and shapes chsnge. For the reasons and questions I outlined prior, transmissions have more potential changes - every up shift and downshift combo and multiple modes, up and down hill behavior, WOT and part throttle behavior, shift times and firmness, braking triggers, etc.. Inquiring minds want to know!

Thus there is no reason vendors shouldn't be willing to share a similar level of information about trans software. Again results NOT methodologies/techniques.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to describe what modification I to the make to transmission tuning in detail in a public forum. For one its a trade secret for 2 it's to complicated. there is no "turn up the line pressure" the 10 speed consist of thousands of tables that control every shift. It takes a combination of modifying pressures, adaptive closed loop characteristics open loop shift characteristics, clutch timing, phase durations, torque reduction, torque reduction timing, TCC slip, open loop shift characteristics, shift schedules etc. in total there are 393 tables that currently get modified on the transmission side in the bronco 10 speed.

We have some of the best 10 speed trans tuning in the industry. For example on some of our explorer ST and f150 Ecoboost shifting in down around 110-120ms for the gear change with a total torque reduction time of 140-160 ms. We are also the only company to keep a stock transmission intact while running a 10 second 1/4 mile. I've been doing 10 speed since they came out and I have learned a ton over the years.

good examples

How it can change from drive mode to drive mode (4 year old video)

 

[swamp2]

I'm sorry but I'm not going to describe what modification I to the make to transmission tuning in detail in a public forum. For one its a trade secret for 2 it's to complicated. there is no "turn up the line pressure" the 10 speed consist of thousands of tables that control every shift. It takes a combination of modifying pressures, adaptive closed loop characteristics open loop shift characteristics, clutch timing, phase durations, torque reduction, torque reduction timing, TCC slip, open loop shift characteristics, shift schedules etc. in total there are 393 tables that currently get modified on the transmission side in the bronco 10 speed.

We have some of the best 10 speed trans tuning in the industry. For example on some of our explorer ST and f150 Ecoboost shifting in down around 110-120ms for the gear change with a total torque reduction time of 140-160 ms. We are also the only company to keep a stock transmission intact while running a 10 second 1/4 mile. I've been doing 10 speed since they came out and I have learned a ton over the years.

Great stuff and already way more than I asked for and more than I expected. Thank you. I have no doubt you guys are leaders and innovators, engine and trans.

Again, my request is about the resulting user experience specifics, i.e. the outputs/results NOT your own proprietary way of getting there.

All Raptor specific here: Have you noted the overly aggressive down shifts in Sport Mode? Have you noticed the thunks on light throttle 4->5 and 5->6 shifts in Sport mode? Can you/have you disabled auto down shifts in manual mode with Baja mode? These are some of the specifics, I and other attentive owners have noticed and would like to see corrected. I'd even go so far as to call these "thunks" bugs/defects as opposed to designed in features. I still don't see why this very high level/results type of discussion can't be in public. I'm also happy to move this to a new thread to not further detract from the wonderful results in the OP. Cheers.

 

[BadmansSAS]

I'm sorry but I'm not going to describe what modification I to the make to transmission tuning in detail in a public forum. For one its a trade secret for 2 it's to complicated. there is no "turn up the line pressure" the 10 speed consist of thousands of tables that control every shift. It takes a combination of modifying pressures, adaptive closed loop characteristics open loop shift characteristics, clutch timing, phase durations, torque reduction, torque reduction timing, TCC slip, open loop shift characteristics, shift schedules etc. in total there are 393 tables that currently get modified on the transmission side in the bronco 10 speed.

We have some of the best 10 speed trans tuning in the industry. For example on some of our explorer ST and f150 Ecoboost shifting in down around 110-120ms for the gear change with a total torque reduction time of 140-160 ms. We are also the only company to keep a stock transmission intact while running a 10 second 1/4 mile. I've been doing 10 speed since they came out and I have learned a ton over the years.

good examples

How it can change from drive mode to drive mode (4 year old video)

You arent kidding. As I've said in other threads, I came from the coyote tuning world and am intimately familiar with the 10R80 trans tuning in the S550 platform. There are more than 1,000 tables in the coyote trans section that can be changed. If you use HP Tuners to make a template of just the trans tab, it has to be three separate templates because two of the tabs cap out the 1000 table limit. So when I make a complete trans side tune, its three templates. Then you have engine side tq management settings for pedal demand and so on. These Fords are a HUGE pain in the ass to tune and make them both fast and drive nice slowly.

If you have all that information that you developed, then YES dont share that with anyone if you are in this business selling tunes. Sure you cant claim IP on a ford calibration that you edited. Thats like rewriting the ending of a book then wanting to put it out copy righted as your own.

But you can protect that"IP" as your own by simple not sharing it...lol

 

[BadmansSAS]

Great stuff and already way more than I asked for and more than I expected. Thank you. I have no doubt you guys are leaders and innovators, engine and trans.

Again, my request is about the resulting user experience specifics, i.e. the outputs/results NOT your own proprietary way of getting there.

All Raptor specific here: Have you noted the overly aggressive down shifts in Sport Mode? Have you noticed the thunks on light throttle 4->5 and 5->6 shifts in Sport mode? Can you/have you disabled auto down shifts in manual mode with Baja mode? These are some of the specifics, I and other attentive owners have noticed and would like to see corrected. I'd even go so far as to call these "thunks" bugs/defects as opposed to designed in features. I still don't see why this very high level/results type of discussion can't be in public. I'm also happy to move this to a new thread to not further detract from the wonderful results in the OP. Cheers.

If its like the coyote 10r80 tune, all that can be changed. There are shift schedules for every mode and every scenario like coast down, coast down no throttle and they are all OSS or output shaft speed based vs RPM. If you see the tables, your eyes will cross I assure you. Its easy to make small percentage changes to them by taking the entire table and adding 1% to it or taking away 2% to the values. The results are still in the same curve of sorts, but the output will be changed.

Those 4-5 clunks and 5-4 down clunks and whatnot are a combo of shift schedule/TCC slip and those clutch tables ZFG was talking about. Thats like a super simple cut down version of reality though. If hes got all that down, then thats a big win.

Took me a good 6 months of using my own car and trying everything under the sun I could find/scrape together from everywhere I could look. HPTforums, other tuners and straight up trial and error.

I got all the clunks and hunting solved on my coyote, but also was able to preserve WOT operation where it would shift so fast and clean within a few RPM of my shift target every time and every gear. It was perfection. Alas, that car is sold... And Im retired...lol. If anything I'd much rather tune GM LT cars. They are dumb open loop at WOT and the trans side even being a 10L80/90, is worlds simpler.

This was my stage 1 whipple coyote getting down with my tune. Last pass before I ran 9.90 a few weeks later in better DA.

 

[DVTBGR]

Where was this done and can I have it done on my Badlands? I have zero mods (mechanically) to worry about, but I sure would love more power for fun and towing.

 

[Kinetic]

ZFGRacing

I asked earlier but you must have missed, can this caliber of tune be done remotely or is this a in shop only option?

 

[MWILD]

ZFGRacing

I asked earlier but you must have missed, can this caliber of tune be done remotely or is this a in shop only option?

You would need to install a flashed ECU, but everything else in done remotely.

 

[MWILD]

Where was this done and can I have it done on my Badlands? I have zero mods (mechanically) to worry about, but I sure would love more power for fun and towing.

If you have a 2.7L. Turbos are much smaller, so the gains are not nearly as high.

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...2-7l-with-zfg-racing-e85-tune-bolt-ons.90950/

 

[vrtical]

Impressive, next mod upgraded clutch packs.

 

[raptorusmaximus]

Great stuff and already way more than I asked for and more than I expected. Thank you. I have no doubt you guys are leaders and innovators, engine and trans.

Again, my request is about the resulting user experience specifics, i.e. the outputs/results NOT your own proprietary way of getting there.

All Raptor specific here: Have you noted the overly aggressive down shifts in Sport Mode? Have you noticed the thunks on light throttle 4->5 and 5->6 shifts in Sport mode? Can you/have you disabled auto down shifts in manual mode with Baja mode? These are some of the specifics, I and other attentive owners have noticed and would like to see corrected. I'd even go so far as to call these "thunks" bugs/defects as opposed to designed in features. I still don't see why this very high level/results type of discussion can't be in public. I'm also happy to move this to a new thread to not further detract from the wonderful results in the OP. Cheers.

I'm a plus one on this Ford did an awful job tuning the trans on the raptor sport mode. I like the way the engine responds in sport mode but the downshifts and clunks make it almost unusable..... if you've addressed these issue's I'm in.

 

[swamp2]

I'm a plus one on this Ford did an awful job tuning the trans on the raptor sport mode. I like the way the engine responds in sport mode but the downshifts and clunks make it almost unusable..... if you've addressed these issue's I'm in.

Thanks for chiming in. Normal is pretty good and Baja is good less the automatic downshifts in manual mode. Sport is the "wart" on the tranny for sure. Many other gave noted this in multiple other threads. @ZFGracing ??

 

[Spooled]

I still have weird part throttle 4-5 shifts sometimes in sport mode. I need to log it and send it over and see if Adam can fix it.

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