2.7 engine failure tracking thread - Ford Please!

FLSTFI Dave

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One of the interesting observations I've read from folks here is there isn't a bunch of noise (knocking, tapping, clicking) or rough running/miss immediately before it locked, just a complaint that it shut off. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, just didn't stand out in the few posts I've seen. Typically, a valve spring break will cause a miss or noise right before the valve drops. Guess I need to poke around on the FMC message boards for more info.
Having just gone through a valve spring failure one my Harley there is no warning sound before it breaks. I had cruise set a 55 mph, sunken cling and dead motor. The spring breaks then you hear metallic noise like valve keepers coming out, valve hitting piston. This happened this past June.

Many years ago I went though valve spring failure on a chevy small block, again no noise until spring broke.

The valve spring used in the Harley M8 heads is the same one Ford uses in one of their engines. Cant remember which one for sure but I think the 5.0
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mpeugeot

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Having just gone through a valve spring failure one my Harley there is no warning sound before it breaks. I had cruise set a 55 mph, sunken cling and dead motor. The spring breaks then you hear metallic noise like valve keepers coming out, valve hitting piston. This happened this past June.

Many years ago I went though valve spring failure on a chevy small block, again no noise until spring broke.

The valve spring used in the Harley M8 heads is the same one Ford uses in one of their engines. Cant remember which one for sure but I think the 5.0
That could certainly be an alternative explanation which would make as much sense as a valve stem failure.
 

FLSTFI Dave

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That could certainly be an alternative explanation which would make as much sense as a valve stem failure.
A valve just goes straight up and down. Stems breaking does happen, but not often. The valve spring is compressed and released once per RPM, so lots. They do not break often, but much more often than a stem. Valve stem usually breaks or bends after a spring failure, or a keeper failure.

Either way one failure is an anomaly. Several failures needs an investigation into why, and root cause, which is something in the metal.
 

Beach_Bum

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They do, however the conclusions from the analysis isn't shared downstream afterwards. If they see a repeat and can isolate to a specific component from a lot or manufacturing problem a SSM/TSB will likely be issued at some point. The fact that they ID the issue is half of the problem, coming up with a repair/fix is another. For example, if they find the issue is with a specific lot of valve springs breaking, they know which engines they are in, they can isolate those individual VINs and maybe just replace springs or heads. It takes longer to come up with a repair plan than to ID the root cause from what I've been told. Guarantee they are all over this since it's a very high dollar component failure.
Have you heard any news to holding back the demo Broncos with the 2.7L? There was mention of it in another thread that I quoted and responded to.
 

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A valve just goes straight up and down. Stems breaking does happen, but not often. The valve spring is compressed and released once per RPM, so lots. They do not break often, but much more often than a stem. Valve stem usually breaks or bends after a spring failure, or a keeper failure.

Either way one failure is an anomaly. Several failures needs an investigation into why, and root cause, which is something in the metal.
I don't know where I got my impression, I could be totally guessing, but for some reason in my head I was thinking that the valve stems were out of spec, which basically meant the retainers were failing. It's been a while since I built an engine And I don't know if the 2.7 works the same way, but the valve retainers are normally two halves that go around the end of the valve stem, and under pressure kind of squeeze it to hold it in place.

All it would take is either a weaker spring to float or a thinner stem to allow play, and if one of those retaining clips moved, the valve would drop.

Only someone who got to see the damaged engine will know the answer. Did something break, or just let go
 
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mpeugeot

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Well, valves usually just bend (as happened when my timing belt broke loose in my Ferrari) 13/20 valves on one bank, toast (aka bent).
 

FLSTFI Dave

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I don't know where I got my impression, I could be totally guessing, but for some reason in my head I was thinking that the valve stems were out of spec, which basically meant the retainers were failing. It's been a while since I built an engine And I don't know if the 2.7 works the same way, but the valve retainers are normally two halves that go around the end of the valve stem, and under pressure kind of squeeze it to hold it in place.

All it would take is either a weaker spring to float or a thinner stem to allow play, and if one of those retaining clips moved, the valve would drop.

Only someone who got to see the damaged engine will know the answer. Did something break, or just let go
An out of spec valve stem could cause the 2 piece retainer to fail. Usually a weak valve spring cause the valve to float, it would have to be extremely weak to let one of the two pieces of the retainer come out I believe.

In June I had a valve spring fail, a very clean break in the spring. As soon as it broke the retainers came out, and the piston hit the valve. I was very lucky that piston was near TDC when it hit the valve and bent the stem. Was an easy rebuild, as no metal left the head, I had both retainers.

A friend had a spring Fail, and he was not so lucky, piston was near bottom of stroke. When it hit the valve it bent the stem with valve way in cylinder and destroyed the piston, the cylinder wall and the head.
 

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I have to admit I am really having second thoughts about this engine. I realize these may seem exaggerated here due to the smaller sample of all the Broncos actually built, but this will be my daily driver that I plan to replace my current one which is a 2011 Toyota Tundra with 170,000 miles on it. I literally have only had to put tires, shocks and brake pads on it in all those years. It even still has the original battery so it has been a great truck. I tend to keep my vehicles for quite a while so I was hoping this one may last me a long time but I guess I hope @Ford Motor Company can get these things figured out soon.
 

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If there were a bad batch of valves or springs I think there would be a lot more than 5 or so engine failures.
Is there a source for tracking the number of failed 2.7's besides B6G ?
 

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If there were a bad batch of valves or springs I think there would be a lot more than 5 or so engine failures.
Is there a source for tracking the number of failed 2.7's besides B6G ?
Just the grassroots effort here. Keep in mind that while it is a small number reported here, B6G represents a tiny fraction of 6G buyers. Also, I don't intend to be alarmist, but there are 3004 Ford dealerships. Each received a demo and some received 2 depending on the volume of reservations/orders. Other than the manual demos which were very few, the majority of the demos were built with the 2.7L and built at the end of June when the suspect engines seem to share a common denominator. If any of the engines failed while in-service, they wouldn't be reported. But most will be available to consumers in the next month or two as the in-service requirement is met.
 

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Just the grassroots effort here. Keep in mind that while it is a small number reported here, B6G represents a tiny fraction of 6G buyers. Also, I don't intend to be alarmist, but there are 3004 Ford dealerships. Each received a demo and some received 2 depending on the volume of reservations/orders. Other than the manual demos which were very few, the majority of the demos were built with the 2.7L and built at the end of June when the suspect engines seem to share a common denominator. If any of the engines failed while in-service, they wouldn't be reported. But most will be available to consumers in the next month or two as the in-service requirement is met.
That makes sense if most demos were built in June, I didn't realize that. Still there are failed engines made before and after June.

The total number of 2.7's is about 23,000, so there should be a lot more failures soon. 😮
 
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mpeugeot

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That makes sense if most demos were built in June, I didn't realize that. Still there are failed engines made before and after June.

The total number of 2.7's is about 23,000, so there should be a lot more failures soon. 😮
This thread is definitely ahead of any potential failure curve, and it's my hope that it won't be needed, but should it be... it's here early enough to capture the whole history.

That said, my 2.7 did hit 1900 miles this weekend. (Week 2 of ownership). So we shall see how this plays out... I am still not out of the woods yet (I think 3,500 miles is out of the woods).
 

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One of the interesting observations I've read from folks here is there isn't a bunch of noise (knocking, tapping, clicking) or rough running/miss immediately before it locked, just a complaint that it shut off. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, just didn't stand out in the few posts I've seen. Typically, a valve spring break will cause a miss or noise right before the valve drops. Guess I need to poke around on the FMC message boards for more info.
I've been following this thread and the forum to see if any of these failures have come with warning signs. My 2.7 clatters like a diesel engine for a couple of seconds at start-up and has for almost two weeks. It has coincided with colder weather here in Georgia, but my Bronco is garage parked. It's driving fine but thanks to these posts I can't help but wonder if my engine (Julian 21175, 2200 miles) is trying to tell me something before it takes a big dump while I'm out on the road with my wife and kids.
 

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One of the interesting observations I've read from folks here is there isn't a bunch of noise (knocking, tapping, clicking) or rough running/miss immediately before it locked, just a complaint that it shut off.
My dad's had all of these things happen, followed by both oil and coolant dumping out of the skid plate upon loading on the truck. From what I understand, a valve drop wouldn't cause that kind of failure, is that right?

Mechanic said it was a catastrophic failure but wouldn't speculate on the cause. I had hoped to get to the scene and take a look but it was loaded up and gone by the time I got there.
 

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User: mmcq
Failed Part Number: MB3E-6007-AA
Engine Julian Date: 21???
Engine Sequence Number: ???
Mileage of failed motor: 1146
Cause of failure: Valve
Replacement Part Number: Unknown
New Engine Julian Date: 21???
New Engine Sequence Number:

User: Broncoshrimp
Failed Part Number: MB3E-6007-AA
Engine Julian Date: 21160
Engine Sequence Number: 120068
Mileage of failed motor: 2400
Cause of failure: Valve
Replacement Part Number: MB3E-6006-AA <- Earlier revision engine???
New Engine Julian Date: 21125
New Engine Sequence Number: 120221

User: 69 Mach I
Failed Part Number: MB3E-6007-AA
Engine Julian Date: 21161
Engine Sequence Number: 120300
Mileage of failed motor: 2744
Cause of failure: Valve
Replacement Part Number: Unknown
New Engine Julian Date: 21XXX
New Engine Sequence Number:

User: estone
Failed Part Number: MB3E-6007-AA
Engine Julian Date: 21209
Engine Sequence Number: 131010
Mileage of failed motor: < 1000
Cause of failure: Valve
Replacement Part Number: Unknown
New Engine Julian Date: 21XXX
New Engine Sequence Number:

User: Nikole
Failed Part Number: MB3E-6007-AA
Engine Julian Date: 21166
Engine Sequence Number: 120417
Mileage of failed motor: 2900
Cause of failure: Valve
Replacement Part Number: Unknown
New Engine Julian Date:
New Engine Sequence Number:
Looks like- you have not specified the type of engine i.e. 2.3L I4 or 2.7L V6. I guess you would need to provide that too.
 
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