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Snacktime

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It's more of how you take the load off the pinion tensioner and transfer the load to the housing than what the housing is made of.

Nothing new in that video for us cool kids... I got one of those too...
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mpeugeot

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Is one material easier to machine than the other?
Just a thought
True, but I would only want to machine it once. I agree that would likely add a little to the cost due to tool wear, but wouldn't you prefer a slightly more expensive rack that was more than 50% stronger?

7075-t6 is not that much harder to machine. 6061-T6 has the advantage of being weldable, but in this application, does that matter? Unless I am missing something, and maybe I am, 7075-T6 is the best choice for a high end housing.
 

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"I mean, you give too much credence to elasticity and you'll start making plans for a polymer steering rack lol"

lol, you are killing me, Tex!

Not a bad analysis coming from a psychologist, right??? The Aluminum tells me how it feels about being a steering rack!
 

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Thanks Nels!!!! Good, well detailed info here. One thing I did chuckle at......... under no circumstances should you put different bushings in the rack. It has 30 thou of tolerance in the casting. It will bind the housing making it break earlier.

Many on B6G should hear those words. :unsure:

I have followed 74Weld for a few years when I noticed Loren running his portals. I remember one were they took his portals apart after 1000 Hammer trail miles. They looked like new. They build some stout stuff.
 
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True, but I would only want to machine it once. I agree that would likely add a little to the cost due to tool wear, but wouldn't you prefer a slightly more expensive rack that was more than 50% stronger?

7075-t6 is not that much harder to machine. 6061-T6 has the advantage of being weldable, but in this application, does that matter? Unless I am missing something, and maybe I am, 7075-T6 is the best choice for a high end housing.

Not no engineer here like yous but could be the reason they use the 6061 is because it is weldable........... so one could "field repair" if needed. Just thinking here. 😁
 

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mpeugeot

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Not no engineer here like yous but could be the reason they use the 6061 is because it is weldable........... so one could "field repair" if needed. Just thinking here. 😁
For baja/endurance racing, I can certainly see that as a consideration, BUT, personally, I would take the extra strength (but weldability might be the right answer).
 

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For baja/endurance racing, I can certainly see that as a consideration, BUT, personally, I would take the extra strength (but weldability might be the right answer).

Yeah, I would love it as well. My big thing would be how "much" more to go from 17% to 50%. At that point you should be into the 40+ range of tire easily.


:unsure: Base Bronc, Ultimate 44, 74Weld rack, set of coilovers. Makes those that had to drop squatch a bit easier to swallow. That's where I was heading is I did not get a build.
 

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The subjectivity of the bushing binding is near zero with a delrin bushing. The metal bushing in the housing on the motor side of BB is the red flag.

I see I edited my post a bit. That is what I was hinting at but thought I should tread lightly because I have seen threads locked and warnings going out lately and did not want to ruffle feathers. 😁

Yes, metal bushing ..................bad.

Plastic, deltran. composite, etc. whatever the substance of the week is :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: ..............good.
 

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I see I edited my post a bit. That is what I was hinting at but thought I should tread lightly because I have seen threads locked and warnings going out lately and did not want to ruffle feathers. 😁

Yes, metal bushing .. No ...............bad.

Plastic, deltran. composite, etc. whatever the substance of the week is :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: ..............good.
I am pro plastic bushing? Metal has a chance of seizing or scoring. Just nice to hear another person give some justification. I wish they would compare the factory bushings but it seems they have others broken racks.

I can tell you that they are pretty spot on with the sharp load and rock crawling. But there concept of factory rack and mild wheeling being fine is a crock of shit.
 

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Tex

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Not a bad analysis coming from a psychologist, right??? The Aluminum tells me how it feels about being a steering rack!
I would like to acquire your services so you can tell me why my knife forgings keep warping during quench. I forge something that looks awesome and the oil says "abracadabra, your knife is a banana". I've already tried sacrificing chickens and waiting until a full moon and all that stuff.

under no circumstances should you put different bushings in the rack. It has 30 thou of tolerance in the casting. It will bind the housing making it break earlier.
Accounting for housing misalignment with small OEM or larger delrin bushings seems kind of a bandaid fix for an underlying issue to me. The better option would be for the bushings to have an undersized ID, then the bushing ID's line bored into spec to achieve concentricity and minimal runout. Alternatively, one could line bore the surfaces where the bearings seat so any bearing would be true. That way the rack and the housing are acting more as one unit when it comes to transmitting loads to one another. Could be that even aftermarket rack modifications are suffering from such misalignment issues as well.


Making the bushing out of a metal suitable for bearing loads in a high friction application such as this logically shouldn't be a problem once you've trued up the ID from end to end. The little fish mouth part that keeps the rack preloaded on the pinion is made from a metal alloy, and it doesn't cause abnormal wear on the rack. I presume that piece is significantly softer than the rack, being designed for wear and constantly readjusted with spring tension over time as tolerances increase, based on what he mentioned about the rack being hardened. Finding out exactly what that alloy is would be a good step toward replicating that same acceptable wear rate to durability ratio in a bushing designed to see essentially the same application. Keep it well lubricated and the boots in good condition, I don't see why it would be an issue. Even a delrin bushing will cause abnormal wear if the grease is contaminated with dirt or sand.

Of course, this is mostly irrelevant pertaining to a weak housing, as even delrin bushings can get the better of it. It does make me consider beefing up my 3.0 rack with some welded gussets and whatnot in troublesome areas, stress relieved, then having some alloy bushings pressed in and line bored. Just curious as to what some modifications like that would net, as far as durability goes.
 

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7075 is stronger than 6061 and the machinability is roughly the same in both materials. 7075 is typically quite a bit higher in price and can be a little tougher to find in large diameter billets (5" +) without buying a large quantity.
The downside to the higher strength of 7075 is that it is susceptible to Stress Corrosion Cracking, so you usually never design to the higher strength. Especially when anodized, the knockdown can be substantial. I've seen an aerospace application recently where the fatigue strength on a 7XXX series aluminum part is literally cut in half.
 

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7075 is stronger than 6061 and the machinability is roughly the same in both materials. 7075 is typically quite a bit higher in price and can be a little tougher to find in large diameter billets (5" +) without buying a large quantity.
The downside to the higher strength of 7075 is that it is susceptible to Stress Corrosion Cracking, so you usually never design to the higher strength. Especially when anodized, the knockdown can be substantial. I've seen an aerospace application recently where the fatigue strength on a 7XXX series aluminum part is literally cut in half.
All entirely accurate in aerospace engineer territory, and 6061 has its own downsides in certain areas too. Something tells me 74Weld isn't going for the most weight savings by engineering a part to make full use of that strength to weight ratio though. Known stress points will likely be built up way in excess, to the point that it might seem excessive to someone who could actually do a stress analysis of the part, but that's the general way most aftermarket companies address weak components and the added weight of that reinforcement probably isn't going to hurt anything. There could certainly be points on a reinforced housing where 7075 could be stressed to that end when other parts are beefed up and the whole rack ends up taking on even more strain as a result, but I have a feeling something else will become the weak link first.

Honestly I don't really understand why they'd go with aluminum to begin with. Yeah, it's lighter and all, but in the scheme of things a steel housing can still be made lightweight with the right considerations and would potentially be cheaper and easier to make (i.e., welding parts together and machining the important bits).
 

mpeugeot

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I would like to acquire your services so you can tell me why my knife forgings keep warping during quench. I forge something that looks awesome and the oil says "abracadabra, your knife is a banana". I've already tried sacrificing chickens and waiting until a full moon and all that stuff.
What steel are you using, what are you doing to get even heat through the blade, and what are you quenching with?

It does make me consider beefing up my 3.0 rack with some welded gussets and whatnot in troublesome areas, stress relieved, then having some alloy bushings pressed in and line bored. Just curious as to what some modifications like that would net, as far as durability goes.
I think that line boring it and running a tapered roller bearing on both sides along with a anti-deflection brace along the outside of the housing would likely be a means of significantly strengthening these racks.

I think that you are on the right track with this line of thought.
 

mpeugeot

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7075 is stronger than 6061 and the machinability is roughly the same in both materials. 7075 is typically quite a bit higher in price and can be a little tougher to find in large diameter billets (5" +) without buying a large quantity.
The downside to the higher strength of 7075 is that it is susceptible to Stress Corrosion Cracking, so you usually never design to the higher strength. Especially when anodized, the knockdown can be substantial. I've seen an aerospace application recently where the fatigue strength on a 7XXX series aluminum part is literally cut in half.
I priced 7075-T651 vs 6061-T6 at online metals yesterday for giggles. 6061 was more expensive than 7075 for 4.5" round stock (they showed that in the video). I am willing to bet that with some additional design work, it would be easy to reduce the material costs with some additional redesign.

As someone pointed out, steel is still a viable option for the housing. There are plenty of free machining steels with adequate corrosion resistance when properly coated or processed.
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