Blocked by Mike Levine on Twitter for asking about early reservation holder deliveries

[Gamecock]

It is not what I said, these were literal quotes that ALL RSVP HOLDERS received, via emails, prior to placing an order. You were told, by Ford, how the process was going to work, the factors at play...numerous times in numerous emails.

You just don't like it, which is your prerogative, but to call it a lie is just factually, and provably, untrue.

Do you read English? Read the very clear FAQ at the time people reserved. Then go read tweet after tweet from the Ford head of communication. All of those commitments were abandoned. Now you’re probably a dealer who complained like a baby that smaller dealers were getting too many, so I I get your bias, but can’t excuse your ignorance of the facts.

I have my Bronco by the way, I just think it’s despicable the way @Ford Motor Company cowered and changed policy once reservations were made.

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[rugbysecondrow]

Do you read English? Read the very clear FAQ at the time people reserved. Then go read tweet after tweet from the Ford head of communication. All of those commitments were abandoned. Now you’re probably a dealer who complained like a baby that smaller dealers were getting too many, so I I get your bias, but can’t excuse your ignorance of the facts.

I have my Bronco by the way, I just think it’s despicable the way @Ford Motor Company cowered and changed policy once reservations were made.

Why are you are choosing to ignore all new information, all updates that clarified the process?

Companies are allowed to update FAQs, it happens all the time and Ford clearly did this well before anybody placed an order, before any unit was selected and any reservation holder converted to an order holder. This is factual.

If a reservation holder didn't like the terms, they didn't need to convert. If they converted, they did so knowing the variables. This is basic stuff.

 

[fergthulhu]

Too funny.

It is not what I said, these were literal quotes that ALL RSVP HOLDERS received, via emails, prior to placing an order.

You were told, by Ford, how the process was going to work, the factors at play...numerous times in numerous emails.

You just don't like it, which is your prerogative, but to call it a lie is just factually, and provably, untrue.

But, believe what you want. I remember somebody else calling that "Alternative Facts". LOL.

I know you're trying to reframe this as "at time of order" but why ignore the "at time of reservation" part? Continually changing their process (always to the detriment of reservation holders) is the whole thing people are bitching about.

lie
noun
\ ˈlī \
Definition of lie (Entry 4 of 6)
1a: an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker or writer to be untrue with intent to deceive
1b: an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker or writer
2: something that misleads or deceives

You could argue intent for 1a, but 1b & 2 seem to be in scope.

 

[LSTLAF]

Your bias is clouding your view of the truth and many of you are choosing to cherry pick your quotes. Through the Fall, early Winter, and Winter well before anybody placed an order, they clearly communicated, (From the Dec 15 email from Ford) " Your reservation* timestamp, and not the date that you place your order with your dealer, will be used to determine when your Bronco gets produced. Other factors for final delivery timing include vehicle model and configuration selected, part constraints, and the number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive. "

Even on the Jan 15 email announcing the order date, they wrote, " As a reminder, the timing for your delivery will vary based on reservation timestamp, vehicle model and configuration selected, part constraints and the number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive. "

Disagree if you want, be upset if you want, but this information was communicated and shared numerous times to every reservation holder prior to anybody placing an order for any Bronco. People either chose to move forward with an order based on this information or not. This is not to discount the rest of the process that has not gone smoothly, but on this point, facts matter.

You can't speak logically to illogical / irrational people.

 

[rugbysecondrow]

I know you're trying to reframe this as "at time of order" but why ignore the "at time of reservation" part? Continually changing their process (always to the detriment of reservation holders) is the whole thing people are bitching about.

You could argue intent for 1a, but 1b & 2 seem to be in scope.

It's not a reframing, just a literal statement if fact, which apparently is frowned upon. LOL

Yes, because a reservation means nothing if not converted, and every buyer was notified prior to the order conversion date.

Every buyer has agency and could choose to convert or not convert.

Your argument is, well, Ford once said "X", so in perpetuity, they must abide by that or they are liars.

That is just not a reasonable position to hold.

 

[DaveH]

Why are you are choosing to ignore all new information, all updates that clarified the process?

Companies are allowed to update FAQs, it happens all the time and Ford clearly did this well before anybody placed an order, before any unit was selected and any reservation holder converted to an order holder. This is factual.

If a reservation holder didn't like the terms, they didn't need to convert. If they converted, they did so knowing the variables. This is basic stuff.

On July 15, 2020, the FAQs said:

Will reservations be fulfilled in the order placed?​

​

Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received, based on final ordering and production of similarly configured Broncos. All reservations will be completed before production of stock units begins.​

No mention of allocation. That was what was in place when Ford accepted our $100. Ford didn't add allocation to the FAQ until sometime between Oct 20, 2020 and Jan 16, 2021. I cannot find any email alerting me that the FAQs had changed, only an email with a link to the FAQs if I had questions. Why would I look at the FAQs again when I had already read them many times by then unless I was warned they had changed?

In my opinion, adding " the number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive" to the FAQs is a pretty obscure way of telling folks that allocations would be a significant thing. Ford was not trying very hard to tell folks what is in store with the allocation formula. Knowing almost nothing at the time about allocations, I would have never suspected the impact of that addition to the FAQs.

I suspect Ford was trying to do some CYA without causing an uproar. All they did was delay the uproar.

 

[fergthulhu]

It's not a reframing, just a literal statement if fact, which apparently is frowned upon. LOL

Yes, because a reservation means nothing if not converted, and every buyer was notified prior to the order conversion date.

Every buyer has agency and could choose to convert or not convert.

Your argument is, well, Ford once said "X", so in perpetuity, they must abide by that or they are liars.

That is just not a reasonable position to hold.

Hence the reframing; your factual statement is only relevant to a small slice of the overall picture.

You are absolutely right that people have the agency to make a decision, the question to me is do they have the agency to make an informed decision in this case. Would the average customer even know what "number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive" means? Did the dealer have these numbers or allocation formula available at the time of order? Can we reasonably expect a consumer to know how to get this data and make a decision based on that? I'd expect many placed orders didn't have a clue into how this small, innocuous statement would affect their delivery timeline. Many more probably had some idea of the meaning but decided to roll the dice.

I think even Ford would disagree that a reservation means nothing, they have several press releases and articles written about their reservation numbers; not so many about their conversion numbers. I'm not at all interested in a Lightning and I've heard all about their 200k reservations. This is where the intent could come in: did they say something different to get higher reservation numbers? FOMO is an incredibly powerful tool for sales & marketing. I have no idea. I don't have the facts to argue that and I'm not even sure I want to know the answer.

But that's how lying works. The question of intent aside: did they say one thing, then do another? They have every right to do it, but it doesn't make the lie disappear. I don't know about you, but if I tell someone that I'm going to do something I do my best to follow through. If I fail them I don't mind being called a liar—we all are at some point—but I do my best to make up for it. I feel it is perfectly reasonable to be held accountable for the things we say and also to acknowledge and make amends.

 

[wbrainbow]

I keep seeing this Ford-apologist characterization, and I think it's dumb. So what that Ford started delivering vehicles 6 months ago. All that means is that everyone had to wait that first amount of time. The fact is, the OP, and many others, gave Ford money for a reservation more than 500 days ago. It seems reasonable to me at this point to be upset over the wait, especially when Ford has allowed people to jump the line that Ford first created.

Start a successful Bronco YouTube channel and post positive videos and you'll get moved closer to the front of the line. It's worked for lots of youtubers.

 

[Drex]

Do you read English? Read the very clear FAQ at the time people reserved. Then go read tweet after tweet from the Ford head of communication. All of those commitments were abandoned. Now you’re probably a dealer who complained like a baby that smaller dealers were getting too many, so I I get your bias, but can’t excuse your ignorance of the facts.

I have my Bronco by the way, I just think it’s despicable the way @Ford Motor Company cowered and changed policy once reservations were made.

Why are you are choosing to ignore all new information, all updates that clarified the process?

Companies are allowed to update FAQs, it happens all the time and Ford clearly did this well before anybody placed an order, before any unit was selected and any reservation holder converted to an order holder. This is factual.

If a reservation holder didn't like the terms, they didn't need to convert. If they converted, they did so knowing the variables. This is basic stuff.

You both are half right.

Ford did refer to the number of vehicles a dealer got being a factor in the December email, before people ordered. The context was that it was obvious they were not going to get all the builds done in 2021, so people grumbled, but mostly stayed with their preferred dealer because Ford still maintained (expressly in the reservation webpage verbiage that the reservation orders would be done before dealer stock, putting a maximum wait based only on the limitations of commodities and shipping. In addition, Ford used the number of reservations at each dealer as a factor in the allocations they added into the mix (during the actual time of reservation it was crystal clear that reservation time stamp was the be all and end all of wait times (as best as Ford could manage))

Again, at the time, it was reasonable to expect that by Spring 2022 all the reservations would be filled due to the aforementioned restrictions only being commodities and shipping.

Ford sneaking in a sentence or two in a bulk email that they figured most people would probably not closely read (and not telling them how the allocations were being distributed, so nobody could make a reasoned decision on if to transfer a reservation or not). Do not forget, Ford never notified us that allocations were taking over the process, they changed the FAQ long after folks reserved, like anyone goes back and checks the terms and conditions of something they already bought (reservation) 4 months previously and sent out a bulk email with one sentence vaguely referencing the number a dealer gets. While the forum members might have poured over every detail and understood it better than folks who just reserved and went about their lives, it was not what anyone would consider notification of a change, it was not called out as a change, it was snuck in there.

So here we are a year ago, ordered up, and waiting. Ford kicks in the VIPS and the Priority Orders because, well, we all know how important the reservations are to them now. People grumble, but the orders are in and there is no moving them.

MY2022 comes and ordering time again. Even the folks who understand the allocation formula exists don't (nor do dealers know) what the 2022MY allocation formula will use as criteria. We re-order.

After re-order, Ford puts out (and again, most people not scouring these forums have no idea) an allocation model for 2022 MY (this is the important part; AFTER most everyone had reordered, and there was no mechanism to change an order to another dealer in any event anyway) and Ford did not consider the reservations at all in the 2022MY allocation formula. Ergo; the allocation system (and by extension, Ford, doesn't give a rip about the number of reservations at each dealer.) There is nothing that could be more dismissive or disrespectful to the folks that reserved and endured change after change. At the same time, Levine, mocks people for believing Ford ever intended to build all reservations before stock and what they really mean was they would build 2021MY reservations before stock and after that they would do whatever they wanted ( I personally saw that change in the FAQ just before original ordering time, where they changed all reservations to all 2021 reservations and I raised the alarm at the time, so I know that is when they changed it.)

He further inflamed the reservation holders by telling them to switch to different dealers if they did not like the ever changing deal. As we all know now, Ford is not facilitating dealer changes, at least not on a scale that might help people. As dealers are not telling you their starting allocations, the number of similar reservations (or number of reservations at all), there is no way to get enough information to make an informed dealer switch anyway. Not that it matters, because Ford won't let you switch.

So...while, yes, there was a reference to dealer allocations in an email from Ford (and an after the fact FAQ change online), neither mentioned switching dealers or that they were going to rescind the promise to finish all reservations before retail and stock orders would be built, it is not what any reasonable person could claim is informing people to a level where they should know to call every dealer, cajole them into giving them the allocations expected, the end number of reservations, including details on the number of expected transfers, before choosing to put their order in with a different dealer then they originally picked and likely with whom they had worked out pricing.



Short version (in chronological order)
1. Ford sells reservations, first come, first served. (people pick dealers based on that)
2. Ford makes oblique reference to allocations, without using the word allocations, and partially changes the reservation FAQ, but still promises to build all reservations first (people weigh the slightly out of order timestamp builds with knowing they will be built before they can buy off a lot no matter what and modify or keep their dealer of choice and then order)
3. Ford mails hammock, prints, and a flag out to folks. (in the US). Ford changes 'all' reservations will be built first to 2021MY reservations will be built first in the reservation FAQ, make no email or official announcement of the change.
4. People re-order for 2022MY assuming the information on last years allocations will remain somewhat similar because they have no other information at that time.
5. Ford pulls the rug out from under all reservation holders by not considering reservations at all when allocating Broncos to each dealer.
6. Ford spokesman mocks people for believing Ford ever intended to follow through on numbers 1, 2, and 4, tells them to get happy or transfer. Ford doesn't allow transfers.
7. Forum explodes with rage over if "could not care less" is the same as "couldn't care less" (it isn't btw)

 

[rugbysecondrow]

Hence the reframing; your factual statement is only relevant to a small slice of the overall picture.

You are absolutely right that people have the agency to make a decision, the question to me is do they have the agency to make an informed decision in this case. Would the average customer even know what "number of Bronco vehicles your dealer will receive" means? Did the dealer have these numbers or allocation formula available at the time of order? Can we reasonably expect a consumer to know how to get this data and make a decision based on that? I'd expect many placed orders didn't have a clue into how this small, innocuous statement would affect their delivery timeline. Many more probably had some idea of the meaning but decided to roll the dice.

I think even Ford would disagree that a reservation means nothing, they have several press releases and articles written about their reservation numbers; not so many about their conversion numbers. I'm not at all interested in a Lightning and I've heard all about their 200k reservations. This is where the intent could come in: did they say something different to get higher reservation numbers? FOMO is an incredibly powerful tool for sales & marketing. I have no idea. I don't have the facts to argue that and I'm not even sure I want to know the answer.

But that's how lying works. The question of intent aside: did they say one thing, then do another? They have every right to do it, but it doesn't make the lie disappear. I don't know about you, but if I tell someone that I'm going to do something I do my best to follow through. If I fail them I don't mind being called a liar—we all are at some point—but I do my best to make up for it. I feel it is perfectly reasonable to be held accountable for the things we say and also to acknowledge and make amends.

Man, I don't know if you are right or not, I stopped reading after the first paragraph. I do know this whole conversation is stupid, even my participation in it. If I could delete comments and be out of it, I would.

Zero has been accomplished by this thread, include my "contribution"

So, If you want to be mad and tweet, then tweet.

If you want to be mad because Ford lied, then be mad

It's your world, I don't have to live in it.

 

[1975U15]

God some of you really like to argue....days later...still here. Ya'll lawyers or debate class all-stars??

 

[BC overlanding]

All I got to say is "1st world problems"

 

[Knownman]

Forgive me. Not sure how I goofed up... But this post below was actually intended for this thread... https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/fords-management-of-supply-chain.31265/#post-1053101

Sorry for any confusion!

Lean manufacturing, FIFO, POS, Kaizen and many more... All are in their own unique ways trying to match lowest cost with max profit while reasonably controlling supply and demand.

There is no method during any pandemic that is going to prevail beyond sourcing all the raw materials and manufacturing in house. And we all know that is unreasonable and not cost effective.

And let us not forget about logistics! A lot of small things must go great together or the entire process fails.

Call it what you want. Any time a "Global" event happens. We all pay the price. Now if we could just learn from history instead of being determined to repeat it... LOL!

Not a single thing you've said here is Germain to why FORD and Mike Levine can't be bothered to communicate to every reservation holder who has paid FORD ($1100 so far) with an accurate and reasonable response as to when they might expect their individual vehicles to be built. Even worse is that when you do draw the magical pill and get a build date, there is still a large chance you won't get any indication of your build progress because apparently FORD believes it is acceptable to continue building Broncos when the MAP facility is not fully stocked with the necessary components to complete the builds they put through the manufacturing line. Which then puts your 2021 Bronco on a lot waiting for whatever part is missing to be refit at their convenience when those inventories are replenished. Ask me how I know this.

This is a communications issue and Mike Levine is failing miserably.

 

[fergthulhu]

God some of you really like to argue....days later...still here. Ya'll lawyers or debate class all-stars??

Sometimes I forget how pointless it all is and respond despite knowing better. Better represented, as usual, by xkcd:

 

[Seralan]

There is nothing he can say that will appease anyone that has waiting for close to 2 years for their Bronco. He can try and polish a turd, but it still stinks.

I just don't really understand what he should say or do or what people are expecting him to do.

For a start they could say all remaining day 1 Bronco reservation holders will have a vin by a fixed date. Because they are loosing credibility. Even with commodities that should be manageable.

Also they could follow through in good faith and protect customers with reservations from predatory dealers. The bad press is going to hurt Ford and that is part of his job to fix.

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