Factory oil fill? Blend or full synthetic?

[JohnnyBronco]

This is totally wrong and smacks of an old wives tale that will not die. There is NOTHING and I mean nothing that a conventional or synthetic blend can do that a full synthetic cannot do better.

At this point in time, there are more cars leaving the factory with synthetic oil than all others combined. OEMs would not spend the money on synthetic if it were not needed OR if it caused issues with the engine.

Synthetics outflow and outperform in both high and low temperatures versus conventional oils. Which, by the way, many so called conventional oils are actually blends these days.

There is ZERO tech behind that statement. A synthetic oil does not have anything in it that causes it to be "flung off" nor does a conventional or synthetic blend oil have something that makes it cling better. If that were true, you would have conventional and synthetic blend oils leading the market in R&D and sales...that is clearly not the case. In addition, look at all of the high-density powered engines on the market--what type of oil are they running? Conventional or Synthetic? Ford is the outlier here on the Ecoboost engines, most, if not all other OEMs are specifying full synthetic oils.


Here is a link to a list of 0W-30 and 5W-30 oils that meet the WSS specifications.

Link to Oils Meeting WSS-M2C963-A1 (0W-30) and WSS-M2C961-A1 (5W-30)

Little known fact. Schaeffer produces the basic synthetic stock used by almost all other oils on the list. Nearly everyone else buys their primary ingredient from them.

Schaeffer's can be a little harder to find. Check with a local farm tractor dealer. We used to use and sell Schaeffer when we sold Kubotas.

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[CarbonSteel]

Little known fact. Schaeffer produces the basic synthetic stock used by almost all other oils on the list. Nearly everyone else buys their primary ingredient from them.

Schaeffer's can be a little harder to find. Check with a local farm tractor dealer. We used to use and sell Schaeffer when we sold Kubotas.

From what I have seen and as expected, Exxon Mobil, and Shell are the top suppliers of synthetic base stock (typically PAO) and have the production capacity to meet the needs. By itself, Shell's GTL Pearl plant in Qatar makes enough finished synthetic oil for 225 million cars per year.

I would be surprised if Schaeffer's is making its own stock versus buying it from Shell or XOM. With that said, Schaeffer's is a good oil, but as you said it can be harder to find.

 

[Modrod66]

This is totally wrong and smacks of an old wives tale that will not die. There is NOTHING and I mean nothing that a conventional or synthetic blend can do that a full synthetic cannot do better.

At this point in time, there are more cars leaving the factory with synthetic oil than all others combined. OEMs would not spend the money on synthetic if it were not needed OR if it caused issues with the engine.

Synthetics outflow and outperform in both high and low temperatures versus conventional oils. Which, by the way, many so called conventional oils are actually blends these days.

There is ZERO tech behind that statement. A synthetic oil does not have anything in it that causes it to be "flung off" nor does a conventional or synthetic blend oil have something that makes it cling better. If that were true, you would have conventional and synthetic blend oils leading the market in R&D and sales...that is clearly not the case. In addition, look at all of the high-density powered engines on the market--what type of oil are they running? Conventional or Synthetic? Ford is the outlier here on the Ecoboost engines, most, if not all other OEMs are specifying full synthetic oils.


Here is a link to a list of 0W-30 and 5W-30 oils that meet the WSS specifications.

Link to Oils Meeting WSS-M2C963-A1 (0W-30) and WSS-M2C961-A1 (5W-30)

I saw the results in over 100 engines. It was consistent across the board. All synthetic engines of the same approximate mileage had a high degree of wear on the chains and gears. The conventional oil engines did not. It’s not something that’s in synthetic oil that causes it, it’s something that’s not in it that causes it. Synthetic oils start out as conventional oils and are highly processed down which changes and removes certain properties from the oil. The process makes the oils better at shear protection and friction protection, but lack cling. It’s not an old wives tale, it’s chemistry. Of course the oil companies are going to deny it. They are in the business of selling it. They don’t care if your engine wears out at 150k, because by then the warranty is up. It’s about saving a dime and getting the mpg numbers they need. Synthetic oil is better for mpgs, but not total engine protection. To them and the car manufacturers, the mpgs are more important than your vehicle lasting 250k. And then they can sell you another one sooner. Just like the rubber belt that drives the oil pump, they only need it to last past the warranty.

This is totally wrong and smacks of an old wives tale that will not die. There is NOTHING and I mean nothing that a conventional or synthetic blend can do that a full synthetic cannot do better.

At this point in time, there are more cars leaving the factory with synthetic oil than all others combined. OEMs would not spend the money on synthetic if it were not needed OR if it caused issues with the engine.

Synthetics outflow and outperform in both high and low temperatures versus conventional oils. Which, by the way, many so called conventional oils are actually blends these days.

There is ZERO tech behind that statement. A synthetic oil does not have anything in it that causes it to be "flung off" nor does a conventional or synthetic blend oil have something that makes it cling better. If that were true, you would have conventional and synthetic blend oils leading the market in R&D and sales...that is clearly not the case. In addition, look at all of the high-density powered engines on the market--what type of oil are they running? Conventional or Synthetic? Ford is the outlier here on the Ecoboost engines, most, if not all other OEMs are specifying full synthetic oils.


Here is a link to a list of 0W-30 and 5W-30 oils that meet the WSS specifications.

Link to Oils Meeting WSS-M2C963-A1 (0W-30) and WSS-M2C961-A1 (5W-30)

Here is a post from someone who experienced how synthetic doesn’t stay on parts like conventional oil. Spinning speeds up the process of coming off the parts:

from another board. any comments? when the engine sits for an extended amount of time. I'd seen some comments by one well-known non-Mopar drag racer and at least one cam company about how synthetic oils drain off engine parts during extended time when the engine isn't run. The last time I changed the oil in my RR I put in Royal Purple synthetic 15w40. The car sat dormant for the last 3-4 months, but yesterday was a good time for me try to fire it up for the spring. I figured the down time meant I should prime the oil system before running the engine, but I was a little surprised when I saw a perfect example of what the cam company, et al, were warning about. When I pulled out the oil pump drive gear, the gear where it engages the cam was DRY... like it looks when it comes out of the box. I shined a light into the lifter valley through the distributor hole and could see the first cam lobe & lifter was DRY, too. Having pulled down engines run on dino oil that have sat for REALLY long times (not just a few months) and seeing obvious signs of the oil staying on the parts, this was really disturbing. I've decided this is really not a characteristic of the oil I want to use in either of my old Mopars which simply don't get driven on a regular basis. The next time I change the oil on the RR, it's getting a quality mineral oil, instead of a synthetic.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I saw the results in over 100 engines. It was consistent across the board. All synthetic engines of the same approximate mileage had a high degree of wear on the chains and gears. The conventional oil engines did not. It’s not something that’s in synthetic oil that causes it, it’s something that’s not in it that causes it. Synthetic oils start out as conventional oils and are highly processed down which changes and removes certain properties from the oil. The process makes the oils better at shear protection and friction protection, but lack cling. It’s not an old wives tale, it’s chemistry. Of course the oil companies are going to deny it. They are in the business of selling it. They don’t care if your engine wears out at 150k, because by then the warranty is up. It’s about saving a dime and getting the mpg numbers they need. Synthetic oil is better for mpgs, but not total engine protection. To them and the car manufacturers, the mpgs are more important than your vehicle lasting 250k. And then they can sell you another one sooner. Just like the rubber belt that drives the oil pump, they only need it to last past the warranty.

Here is a post from someone who experienced how synthetic doesn’t stay on parts like conventional oil. Spinning speeds up the process of coming off the parts:

from another board. any comments? when the engine sits for an extended amount of time. I'd seen some comments by one well-known non-Mopar drag racer and at least one cam company about how synthetic oils drain off engine parts during extended time when the engine isn't run. The last time I changed the oil in my RR I put in Royal Purple synthetic 15w40. The car sat dormant for the last 3-4 months, but yesterday was a good time for me try to fire it up for the spring. I figured the down time meant I should prime the oil system before running the engine, but I was a little surprised when I saw a perfect example of what the cam company, et al, were warning about. When I pulled out the oil pump drive gear, the gear where it engages the cam was DRY... like it looks when it comes out of the box. I shined a light into the lifter valley through the distributor hole and could see the first cam lobe & lifter was DRY, too. Having pulled down engines run on dino oil that have sat for REALLY long times (not just a few months) and seeing obvious signs of the oil staying on the parts, this was really disturbing. I've decided this is really not a characteristic of the oil I want to use in either of my old Mopars which simply don't get driven on a regular basis. The next time I change the oil on the RR, it's getting a quality mineral oil, instead of a synthetic.

I have to respectfully disagree and not sure when you observed this issue with 100 engines, but conventional oils are no longer 100% conventional at this point in time, they are at least blends. I would also love to know what ASTM process is being used to measure "cling" or the lack thereof. This continues to sound like voodoo or black magic versus science.

Conventional oil cannot meet the requirements of API SP (even SN or SN+) without it. A prime example of this requirements for a standard like Dexos. Unless I am mistaken, no conventional oil can meet those requirements which by the way are geared towards minimizing the possibility of LSPI and to reduce timing chain wear:

In addition, for this:

"Synthetic oils start out as conventional oils and are highly processed down which changes and removes certain properties from the oil."

This is not an absolute statement, and it all depends. Many synthetics are mostly Group IV or Group V which means they do NOT start as conventional oils and are not highly processed--think Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple and to a lesser degree Pennzoil Platinum Ultra and Mobil 1 Extended.

There are oils that have Group II+ or Group III as the base and are hydrocracked and processed such as Castrol Edge, Valvoline Full Synthetic, vanilla Mobil 1, etc.

With that said, ALL of the aforementioned synthetic oils outperform conventional--despite having Group II+ or Group III base oil, that is a proven fact. To say that "Synthetic oil is better for mpgs, but not total engine protection." is bovine scatology. There is NO conventional oil that can withstand the temperatures that a synthetic can without forming varnish and sludge which is highly detrimental to modern valve trains that have cam phasers or VVT/VCT actuators or are turbocharged.

What camshaft company is stating to not run a synthetic? It would not be a cam that I would run and seriously sounds like something from the 1960s or 1970s. Like it or not, conventional oils are going the way of the dodo.

To see this in action, all one need do is to either look at the mainstream oils on the shelf and the percentage of conventional oil versus synthetics is miniscule OR look at the number of vehicles that come from the factory with conventional oils--ZERO. OEMs are the penny pinchers of all time and if conventional oil would meet the needs, they would use it, but they don't.

OEMs are pushing engines to do more and more for longer periods of time and it requires a synthetic to do that. Feel free to believe whatever you want, but there is far too much empirical evidence supporting the superiority of synthetic oils over conventionals and blends.

 

[66stmpd]

Ford spec WSS-M2C961-A1 (5w-30) is for Motorcraft synthetic blend in the United States. There are some full synthetic oils that meet the spec as well. Pennzoil and Mobil 1 do.

I was running Valvoline Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W-30 with Motorcraft Oil Filter for 1,500 miles and zero change on the MPG. I Just switched to Mobil 1 5W-30 - Advanced Full Synthetic Engine Oil with Mobil 1 M1-102A Extended Performance Oil Filter and after the first 30 miles gained from 16.3 to 18.1 Average MPG. Plus as stated with Mobil 1 5W-30 - Advanced Full Synthetic Engine Oil Here:

Specifications and Approvals

This product has the following approvals:

GM dexos1:GEN3 Licensed

HONDA/ACURA HTO-06

This product is recommended for use in applications requiring:

Ford WSS-M2C929-A

Ford WSS-M2C946-A

Ford WSS-M2C946-B1

This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:

API SJ

API SL

API SM

API SN

API SN PLUS

API SN PLUS RESOURCE CONSERVING

API SN Resource Conserving

API SP

API SP Resource Conserving

ILSAC GF-6A

CHRYSLER MS-13340

Chrysler MS-6395

FORD WSS-M2C961-A1

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