The gripe thread.

[indio22]

Is being incessantly condescending something that comes naturally to Europeans too, or is that learned behavior?

No, I'm not sure why he is saying that stuff. Firstly, Europe is no monolith. Depending on the country and region, drivers might appreciate manual or automatic more.

Also I happen to be an American and Irish citizen. I was driving a manual car last summer in Ireland, and I like changing gears as needed based on road conditions, and what I saw coming up. Mostly on the non-expressway roads while my passengers and people in another car were freaking out, lol. I preferred the manual to waiting/relying on the fuel pedal input and related algorithms to decide. (I also saved a lot of cash hiring a manual rather than automatic vehicle.)

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[Rogues Gambit]

This is such an american thing to say. In the rest of the world(Europe f.x) we know to drive manuals from the day we get Our License. In america its like you think you are special if you know how. Its a totally normal and mundane thing to drive cars with manual gearboxes.

And in America, owning guns and saying what we please is just a way of life as well.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Don’t be too harsh, it’s tough being inferior.

True that, they only wish they were American

Is being incessantly condescending something that comes naturally to Europeans too, or is that learned behavior?

Yes

 

[Jake_zx2]

Is being incessantly condescending something that comes naturally to Europeans too, or is that learned behavior?

It comes naturally... trust me, I lived over there for a few years

there’s a reason America is the greatest country on earth

 

[Adk_st]

Porsche got a lot of backlash when it was rumored they were going to kill off the manual. Now you can get gt3's and 4's with a stick just like the 997's. And that's a company that has the best dual clutch made. People enjoy manuals. It's a really simple argument and I don't understand why it gets so heated. Some people like rowing their own and some don't. Having options for both is in no way a bad thing

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

It would be comical to watch, and I feel your pain - having had a couple FSBs. But I outwitted the key thing, I simply kept a spare door key in my pocket. I quickly learned that leaving the keys elsewhere was an issue, and after a couple times, rarely found that I left my keys in the ignition - a questionable practice with a vintage vehicle to start with, more so to leave it running. Leaving your keys elsewhere when they are needed to open a door is a planning problem that one would think repetition of such a negative feedback cycle would self-correct in an intelligent being... but the spare key resolved about half of the issues you enumerated. The FSB had torsion bars to counter the weight of the tailgate, perhaps the Wagoneer didn't have that convenience or it was worn out?

But in a new vehicle, almost every one of those complaints can be solved with modern engineering and technology:

"Walk around, open door, get keys...": NFC controls in the keyless remote that lives in your pocket or optionally linked to your phone. Stick your foot out, window rolls down. Stick it out again, tailgate unlatches.

"60 lbs. heavier than it needs to be because...": Tell me you haven't seen a modern tailgate or lift gate that opens literally effortlessly, even by electric motor.

"Lift overweight tailgate...blah, blah, blah...": See above, substituting "opens" with "closes".

You could even leave your car running while you do all this, as a keyless system allows you to exit the vehicle with the key as the vehicle remains running - but it would never be necessary.

Your final complaint, exhaust fumes and dirt... we're talking about an off-road vehicle that has the ability to go roofless and windowless. It IS going to get filthy inside if you're barreling around in a dry, dusty environment. If you're going fast enough to suck exhaust into the cab, there's a button on the dash to solve that... I found that 2/3 to 3/4 up kept fumes out, but allowed the dogs to live in a virtual state of continuous bliss in the back.

So... 95% non-issue on a roll-up inside of a gate.

Great points except when you drive over that rock and your tailgate opens and the dogs and you cooler fall out.

 

[Paint]

iTs mOrE eGaGiNg tO dRiVe

I care about getting it right or going the fastest.

Even my 94 Wrangler is an automatic. It's a shitty 3 speed, and it's still better than a manual.

Autos are better. Fight me.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

iTs mOrE eGaGiNg tO dRiVe

I care about getting it right or going the fastest.

Even my 94 Wrangler is an automatic. It's a shitty 3 speed, and it's still better than a manual.

Autos are better. Fight me.

 

[Paint]

How big a boy are ya?

 

[Jake_zx2]

iTs mOrE eGaGiNg tO dRiVe

I care about getting it right or going the fastest.

Even my 94 Wrangler is an automatic. It's a shitty 3 speed, and it's still better than a manual.

Autos are better. Fight me.

Sounds like a whole lot of words for “daddy never taught me how to drive manual so I have to try to justify the less fun transmission”

 

[Adk_st]

iTs mOrE eGaGiNg tO dRiVe

I care about getting it right or going the fastest.

Even my 94 Wrangler is an automatic. It's a shitty 3 speed, and it's still better than a manual.

Autos are better. Fight me.

I'll just pass you with my 6 speed manual ?

 

[Jalisurr]

iTs mOrE eGaGiNg tO dRiVe

I care about getting it right or going the fastest.

Even my 94 Wrangler is an automatic. It's a shitty 3 speed, and it's still better than a manual.

Autos are better. Fight me.

I'll fight you about the 3 speed in your 94 being better, but there's no doubt that modern automatic transmissions are objectively better than a manual. Wanting a manual transmission is a heart decision, not a head decision, it's not logical.

That said, it doesn't hurt anyone to have the option of both. I still would rather have a manual even if it's slightly slower 0-60.

 

[Paint]

Sounds like a whole lot of words for “daddy never taught me how to drive manual so I have to try to justify the less fun transmission”

I learned on a manual in the 80's. I have a manual in my GTO right meow.

Autos are faster.

 

[eBronco]

The only gripe I might have depends on if a manual transmission is available or not. If not, that’s a total fail. You can’t build a wrangler alternative and nod to early Broncos without a manual option. Looks like they got everything else right, but I’m not buying an automatic Bronco.

I agree. It MUST have a manual option

Also, I am hoping for a hard parcel cover like the Range Rover and SAAB 9-5 wagon vs some roll up SUV cover. The rollup covers are USELESS...USELESS...USELESS. A hard cover would allow the roof to be stored AND give you the ability to put stuff above the roof pieces.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

How big a boy are ya?

5'9 xD

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