The IFS vs SFA Thread

[OX1]

OX1 What did you think of AOAA ???

Loved it. Haven't been there in several years myself. I forgot about Paragon, but AOAA is much closer to Paragon than Rausch.
Rausch has a lot of hard trails, but many are on more or less on flat ground with just huge rocks.

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[OX1]

So I did alittle searching and stumbled upon this ……….. It's quite lengthy. A complete build of an H3. IFS, junkyard diff, some tubing, heims and a whole lot of calculating. The guy didn't just stick it together. although I didn't read the whole thing, I did look through most of it and he shows how calculated things and even pics of it getting the job done when done. Well built !!!! IMO, it still looks like a lot more work than SFA with a 3-/4-link setup, but looks like it works quite well.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/hummer/915987-h3-long-travel-build.html

Maybe a center diff and long arms, custom shafts, can be had, as long as you can get away with some short upper arms...……. …….might have to do more surfing before the weather breaks 'cause once it's warm out ……. I'm in the woods.

That's what I was looking for, thanks. Very nicely done. Could not find a video to see how
"mean" he was being to it. But all that work and it would get the crap kicked out of it
by an approx $2K radius arm suspension setup.

And

" I admit, I fully deserved it... front axle locked up, wheels turned to full lock, steep BS stair steps, wrong line , Wayne Hartwig programmed torque Monster 3.5 Vortec - uh-huh" and busted a halfshaft.

Really?, that describes virtually the entire time we are wheeling in rigs as heavy and wide as ours.
Maybe you'all bust 35 spline 60 axles that easy on those sandpaper traction trails out there too??

I would need to see that whole rig lurching up and down, at 30 MPH wheel speeds (and no ground speed),
pounding repeatedly, completely in the air and then slamming back into the ground. Zero traction until you
finally hit it just right and all the stress of 800 lbs of tires spinning at that differential to the ground, transfers
to the entire axle/suspension. Then go do it 1000's of more times over 14 years.

 

[JimmyDean]

That's what I was looking for, thanks. Very nicely done. Could not find a video to see how
"mean" he was being to it. But all that work and it would get the crap kicked out of it
by an approx $2K radius arm suspension setup.

And

" I admit, I fully deserved it... front axle locked up, wheels turned to full lock, steep BS stair steps, wrong line , Wayne Hartwig programmed torque Monster 3.5 Vortec - uh-huh" and busted a halfshaft.

Really?, that describes virtually the entire time we are wheeling in rigs as heavy and wide as ours.
Maybe you'all bust 35 spline 60 axles that easy on those sandpaper traction trails out there too??

I would need to see that whole rig lurching up and down, at 30 MPH wheel speeds (and no ground speed),
pounding repeatedly, completely in the air and then slamming back into the ground. Zero traction until you
finally hit it just right and all the stress of 800 lbs of tires spinning at that differential to the ground, transfers
to the entire axle/suspension. Then go do it 1000's of more times over 14 years.

he needs to link the back of that, think about the flex if his rear has as much articulation as the front!

 

[OX1]

he needs to link the back of that, think about the flex if his rear has as much articulation as the front!

As I stated, limited budget and just started kids 2 years ago. I'm sure he will get to it eventually.
This was after a body swap (which also got beat to death on heep size trails), but the rear flexes
pretty decent also....... (does have a well designed traction bar setup on the rear for now).

This rig kind of annoys me with how stable it is when you think it should be rolling over.

 

[BAUS67]

Loved it. Haven't been there in several years myself. I forgot about Paragon, but AOAA is much closer to Paragon than Rausch.
Rausch has a lot of hard trails, but many are on more or less on flat ground with just huge rocks.

Cool !!!! Don't think Paragon is around anymore, think the land got redeveloped. I was surfin' some more and came across this pic and thought I had to share I have tried to explain this a lot but this pic says it all. If no locker in the IFS you aren't going even that far. LOL

 

[OX1]

Cool !!!! Don't think Paragon is around anymore, think the land got redeveloped. I was surfin' some more and came across this pic and thought I had to share I have tried to explain this a lot but this pic says it all. If no locker in the IFS you aren't going even that far. LOL

Yes, closed, and the re-development never happened. I was there the last weekend it was open.
Found this poking around the pics from that last trip. Can your IFS do this, tow truck on a 3 wheeled heep, LOL!!!
(yes, I know I'm the king of off-topic, which I certainly would no longer do when there is a real rig to talk about).
Also one of the benefits of wheeling a fullsize rig.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/PARAGON/3 FEB 2007 RIP/4 FEB 2007/MOV01429.MPG

The argument will still be that IFS is good enough. What I would have liked to see on that H3 thread is
what it can do over a SFA, after all that work? Seemed in a couple very unique situations, it might have
kept the body more level. But as you show above, the downside of a wheel in the air is much worse than
a little body roll.

I also once again didn't see even mud covered trails, it's all kind of "perfect" terrain for crawling.
Again, this almost seems like an east coast vs west coast kind of thing, There is just no where to do what an IFS does
best around here, anywhere near the level I wheel at now. Yes it will be more comfy if you drive to the trails, but as
soon as start some of the harder trails on a stockish rig, you realize you really need a trailer
(or complete drivetrain/suspension upgrade).

 

[BAUS67]

Yes, closed, and the re-development never happened. I was there the last weekend it was open.
Found this poking around the pics from that last trip. Can your IFS do this, tow truck on a 3 wheeled heep, LOL!!!
(yes, I know I'm the king of off-topic, which I certainly would no longer do when there is a real rig to talk about).
Also one of the benefits of wheeling a fullsize rig.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/PARAGON/3 FEB 2007 RIP/4 FEB 2007/MOV01429.MPG

The argument will still be that IFS is good enough. What I would have liked to see on that H3 thread is
what it can do over a SFA, after all that work? Seemed in a couple very unique situations, it might have
kept the body more level. But as you show above, the downside of a wheel in the air is much worse than
a little body roll.

I also once again didn't see even mud covered trails, it's all kind of "perfect" terrain for crawling.
Again, this almost seems like an east coast vs west coast kind of thing, There is just no where to do what an IFS does
best around here, anywhere near the level I wheel at now. Yes it will be more comfy if you drive to the trails, but as
soon as start some of the harder trails on a stockish rig, you realize you really need a trailer
(or complete drivetrain/suspension upgrade).

That's cool. I must being having one of those moments because for some reason I tried to google search anything about Paragon adventure park all kinds of ways even with neuroc in and nothing new all the old stuff from when it was first open …….. so I did a you tube search and found one video from December '19. In the comments it says something about being owned by a rod and gun club. What gives ??? What is the secret ??



just posted this quick video to for anyone that doesn't know about it …. Good stuff there.

 

[Jook13]

Cool !!!! Don't think Paragon is around anymore, think the land got redeveloped. I was surfin' some more and came across this pic and thought I had to share I have tried to explain this a lot but this pic says it all. If no locker in the IFS you aren't going even that far. LOL

I mean, that picture really does say it all. There is no way of making an ifs rig have all 4 wheels planted there unless the wheels stick out an extra foot.

 

[Jook13]

Lots of bitching on the web about the lack of SFA on the Bronco vs IFS

So riddle me this:

If a stock IFS Bronco can do off roading as well or 95% as good as a stock Wrangler, but yet offers a superior on road driving experience...does that change your option?

Short answer.... No.
Ford should want the image of most badass in class. Not 2nd place. Usually Ford has a huge hard-on for being number 1. Best in class towing, horsepower, torque, ect.
When I start hearing things like 95 percent as capable, but it's more comfortable, what I really hear is Ford was to afraid to fully commit. They made a compromise to appeal to the masses. The Wrangler sold over a quarter million units last year. How many of those customers had "on road handling" in mind when they decided on Jeep?
I won't make any final judgements because I have a huge feeling we haven't seen the best of what's to come yet. I'm just basing this on what we have seen so far.

 

[Nanook]

Lots of bitching on the web about the lack of SFA on the Bronco vs IFS

So riddle me this:

If a stock IFS Bronco can do off roading as well or 95% as good as a stock Wrangler, but yet offers a superior on road driving experience...does that change your option?

If your plan is to stay stock then it’s a moot point.

 

[OX1]

That's cool. I must being having one of those moments because for some reason I tried to google search anything about Paragon adventure park all kinds of ways even with neuroc in and nothing new all the old stuff from when it was first open …….. so I did a you tube search and found one video from December '19. In the comments it says something about being owned by a rod and gun club. What gives ??? What is the secret ??



just posted this quick video to for anyone that doesn't know about it …. Good stuff there.

It was supposed to be made into a FEDEX airport. Bottom line is there was a huge amount of money and politics
that forced the owners to sell and open a park in Ohio or Mich, IIRC. Then "someone" finally figured out the place is one big valley.
I never could figure out where they were going to put an airstrip in, without literally lopping off the top of a mountain,
turning it upside down, and filling the place in level.

Last I heard locals still run the place all the time, but there was nowhere safe for us to park trailers, so we never went back.
Possible it is owned by someone who only lets members/friends wheel. BlueRocks campground in Pa is owned by a couple
a ClassicBronco (and general ford nuts). They would let ECBR wheel there once a year. They have a glacial rock field that only
3 people have ever even tried to go in (and it was real ugly each time).

Anyway, Paragon had some really nice open natural rock faces.
Hard to find that kind of stuff on east coast.

Rock Crawlin in the snow was fun that day too

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/PARAGON/3 FEB 2007 RIP/4 FEB 2007/BAM BAM.mov
(crappy vid from 2007, no sound, and best watched on really tiny screen )

 

[Stampede.Offroad]

I mean, that picture really does say it all. There is no way of making an ifs rig have all 4 wheels planted there unless the wheels stick out an extra foot.

Just twist the frame. :turkey:

That's what Toyota designed the Tacoma to do.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

It was supposed to be made into a FEDEX airport. Bottom line is there was a huge amount of money and politics
that forced the owners to sell and open a park in Ohio or Mich, IIRC.

Any chance it was "The Badlands" offroad park in Attica, Indiana? I had heard that, never really confirmed it. Badlands is near me.

 

[OX1]

Any chance it was "The Badlands" offroad park in Attica, Indiana? I had heard that, never really confirmed it. Badlands is near me.

Yes, that's sounds like it. Never did get out there, but IIRC, it was a much smaller place with not as extreme terrain.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Yes, that's sounds like it. Never did get out there, but IIRC, it was a much smaller place with not as extreme terrain.

I looked into it later, and yes, it was the badlands.
Been there 2 or 3 times, there's some mudding, some trail, some rock obstacles. ... you can spend a weekend there and not get bored.
But there is NOTHING like that rock garden you posted up. Lol, that picture kinda knots my stomach just looking at it.

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