2.3L Manual Transmission fluid discussion

[kodiakisland]

I used to have a bottle of XT-M5-QS around but must have thrown it out. I'd like to see what specs it meets as compared to what comes in the MT from the factory.

Sponsored

 

[SuperDave150]

I have owned & driven MTs in various makes & models, and done lots of maintenance. Here’s what I have learned:

• The engineers aren’t idiots. Whatever they say to use, well then by golly use it. Seriously.
• It took me years to learn that I wasn’t smarter than the engineers. I did almost everything wrong I could think of. Slick marketing didn’t help.
• If you want to try various brands then knock yourself out - just as long as you follow the manufacture’s specs. This is especially true related to viscosity. Also true for additive packages - as previously mentioned, if you wander from specs then you may shorten the life of seals or synchros.
  • (I tried heavier viscosity in a Toyota and it was practically impossible to shift under 45 degrees. Yes, 45.)
• I‘ve always been a big fan of synthetics, but here’s the crazy thing I experienced - synthetic was so darn slick that the synchros didn’t work. Again, hard to shift. Tried adding “friction modifier” but took a lot to get it right. Big waste of time & money; drained & refilled with standard oil.

Here‘s another perspective: It is extremely rare to see a manual transmission that is purely worn out with a good driver who did regular maintenance. I’ve seen Toyota MTs that cratered but that was bad rear main bearing design. I’ve seen worn out clutches but that can be largely mitigated by education & good habits. I’ve seen MTs that got water in them from drivers who thought their 4x4 was a boat. Most of all I’ve seen MTs that shift like you’re stirring a bucket full of rocks because the driver was harsh or impatient or sloppy. Don’t be that guy.

 

[ldcobb2]

I have owned & driven MTs in various makes & models, and done lots of maintenance. Here’s what I have learned:

• The engineers aren’t idiots. Whatever they say to use, well then by golly use it. Seriously.
• It took me years to learn that I wasn’t smarter than the engineers. I did almost everything wrong I could think of. Slick marketing didn’t help.
• If you want to try various brands then knock yourself out - just as long as you follow the manufacture’s specs. This is especially true related to viscosity. Also true for additive packages - as previously mentioned, if you wander from specs then you may shorten the life of seals or synchros.
  • (I tried heavier viscosity in a Toyota and it was practically impossible to shift under 45 degrees. Yes, 45.)
• I‘ve always been a big fan of synthetics, but here’s the crazy thing I experienced - synthetic was so darn slick that the synchros didn’t work. Again, hard to shift. Tried adding “friction modifier” but took a lot to get it right. Big waste of time & money; drained & refilled with standard oil.

Here‘s another perspective: It is extremely rare to see a manual transmission that is purely worn out with a good driver who did regular maintenance. I’ve seen Toyota MTs that cratered but that was bad rear main bearing design. I’ve seen worn out clutches but that can be largely mitigated by education & good habits. I’ve seen MTs that got water in them from drivers who thought their 4x4 was a boat. Most of all I’ve seen MTs that shift like you’re stirring a bucket full of rocks because the driver was harsh or impatient or sloppy. Don’t be that guy.

Could you elaborate on other MT good habits?

 

[kodiakisland]

• (I tried heavier viscosity in a Toyota and it was practically impossible to shift under 45 degrees. Yes, 45.)

I lot of people go to a heavier oil for the Tacoma for good reason. MT-90 cured most of my problems. Yeah, I gained slow shifting at temps below 40 for the first 2 miles. It was a trade off well worth the effort. Only got below zero a few times, but the slow shifts even that cold weren't too difficult and were gone after 2 miles. Probably not the best for northern latitudes but was fine for the south.

 

[BottleShark]

If Amsoil has the right oil, I've had great luck with them.

 

[Direwild]

So far what I've gathered is that a 75w-85/90 GL-4 gear oil is the way to go with this transmission. Thinking about getting Royal Purple MAX Synthetic gear oil 75w-90 since my local store has it and it's on sale. I'm about to do an oil change too and wanted to try and switch the fluids to over to Mobil 1 stuff but couldn't really find the right GL-4 gear oil from them.

 

[NC_Pinz]

If Ford says use GL-4 in the transmission, you definitely don't want to use GL-5. GL-5 can be rough on copper and other alloy metals which can lead to early transmission failure. GL-5 is usually seen in differentials and similar.

GL-5 is not an improvement on GL-4...just suited for a different application. It pays to do your own research.

Folks have given some good guidance on alternative gear oil. I've used Redline in several applications with good success for all around driving especially in cold weather. The Euro oils are solid as well.

 

[Kerney]

This is a bit of a funny thread and just shows that what you have is never good enough. Over on the miata.net forum THE overwhelming recommended magic manual transmission elixir is Motorcraft synthetic. It's what's in my miata.

 

[Dingbat]

Every manual transmission I’ve ever owned has outlasted the vehicle it was in with whatever gear oil it came with and zero maintenance aside from the occasional throw out bearing or clutch/flywheel/ pressure plate (Which have nothing to do with the gear oil). Some raced, some daily driven, some both. Most of them well over 200k miles.

If there is not some particular issue with the way it shifts, I wouldn’t get too wound up about it aside from keeping up with the scheduled maintenance. There are much better places to direct your resources in that case.

Now, If you’re after a gearbox you can slip into 1st from 3rd with two fingers under heavy braking with the engine singing near redline, that’s a different story. That doesn’t come out of a bottle. You need to pick up another transmission out of a wreck with 30-50k on it and send it to a shop to have it re-worked then swap it in.

 

[Direwild]

Every manual transmission I’ve ever owned has outlasted the vehicle it was in with whatever gear oil it came with and zero maintenance aside from the occasional throw out bearing or clutch/flywheel/ pressure plate (Which have nothing to do with the gear oil). Some raced, some daily driven, some both. Most of them well over 200k miles.

If there is not some particular issue with the way it shifts, I wouldn’t get too wound up about it aside from keeping up with the scheduled maintenance. There are much better places to direct your resources in that case.

Now, If you’re after a gearbox you can slip into 1st from 3rd with two fingers under heavy braking with the engine singing near redline, that’s a different story. That doesn’t come out of a bottle. You need to pick up another transmission out of a wreck with 30-50k on it and send it to a shop to have it re-worked then swap it in.

Not that the shifting is bad and rough but if i can make it smoother and protect my parts more i want to do that.

 

[Dingbat]

Not that the shifting is bad and rough but if i can make it smoother and protect my parts more i want to do that.

I guess that’s my point. You’ll likely get very minimal gains, if any, short of having a box opened up and machined. Not worth the time and effort, or money, in my opinion. Ymmv.

Reminds me of high performance tire discussions where folks are passionately arguing about the virtues of their favorite sport tire. Then you start driving r-compounds and realize it was arguing about the difference of hundredths of seconds over a minute instead of 10 or 20.

Don’t get me wrong…If its’s worth it to you, it’s worth it to you. Would love to hear how it ends up.

 

[Direwild]

I guess that’s my point. You’ll likely get very minimal gains, if any, short of having a box opened up and machined. Not worth the time and effort, or money, in my opinion. Ymmv.

Reminds me of high performance tire discussions where folks are passionately arguing about the virtues of their favorite sport tire. Then you start driving r-compounds and realize it was arguing about the difference of hundredths of seconds over a minute instead of 10 or 20.

Don’t get me wrong…If its’s worth it to you, it’s worth it to you. Would love to hear how it ends up.

Idk Im thinking on it in terms of just break in period fluid and why not go ahead now replace it with some top notch stuff and never touch it again.

Heck I over did it with my oil changes too. 1st change at 500, 2nd at 1000, 3rd at 5000, about to do my 4th and keep a steady oil change every 5k. I just really want to take care of this thing. These broncos aren't without some hiccups on some of them(Mine the electric parking brake failed) who's to say they aren't skipping on the fluids too. They are a business try to make money and using expensive stuff won't benefit them financially

 

[Dingbat]

Idk Im thinking on it in terms of just break in period fluid and why not go ahead now replace it with some top notch stuff and never touch it again.

Heck I over did it with my oil changes too. 1st change at 500, 2nd at 1000, 3rd at 5000, about to do my 4th and keep a steady oil change every 5k. I just really want to take care of this thing. These broncos aren't without some hiccups on some of them(Mine the electric parking brake failed) who's to say they aren't skipping on the fluids too. They are a business try to make money and using expensive stuff won't benefit them financially

Good point. I’ve pretty much lost faith in Ford over my paint color debacle. If they can’t get something that simple right…

Something I was taught years ago was to baby the throttle until oils come up to temp. Usually takes a little over twice as long as the water if you don’t have an oil temp gauge. Once things are up to temp, go ahead and drive the piss out of it. Also, Inputs should always be smooth as possible. Even when doing things quickly push and guide the stick, wheel, and pedals rather than stomping, smacking, jerking, and forcing them. The whole slow is smooth, smooth is fast thing… Should increase the longevity of your equipment as well, all other things being equal.

I tend to use something similar to the MotoMan method for break-ins. Not sure how I’ll do things with the Bronco if and when I get it… but yeah, shortening up that first oil change interval is key, unless you’re a believer in the old metal particles become micro bearings, change the filter and just top off the oil method.

 

[Direwild]

Good point. I’ve pretty much lost faith in Ford over my paint color debacle. If they can’t get something that simple right…

Something I was taught years ago was to baby the throttle until oils come up to temp. Usually takes a little over twice as long as the water if you don’t have an oil temp gauge. Once things are up to temp, go ahead and drive the piss out of it. Also, Inputs should always be smooth as possible. Even when doing things quickly push and guide the stick, wheel, and pedals rather than stomping, smacking, jerking, and forcing them. The whole slow is smooth, smooth is fast thing… Should increase the longevity of your equipment as well, all other things being equal.

I tend to use something similar to the MotoMan method for break-ins. Not sure how I’ll do things with the Bronco if and when I get it… but yeah, shortening up that first oil change interval is key, unless you’re a believer in the old metal particles become micro bearings, change the filter and just top off the oil method.

Sorry to hear that. I was pretty lucky and got everything right, at MSRP, and no major flaws(hardtop issues mostly). Just the brakes at about 6k miles.

 

[djp]

Would better gear oil fix the grinding noise we are hearing from the 7MT that some dealerships (like mine) are saying normal?

See my service record and sound byte below:

Sponsored