Buyer Beware: Advanced Fiberglass Concepts

[nickyp1020]

There are tens, if not hundreds, of posts bashing AFC on this website already, and this post is not intended to 'pile on'.

I saw through the bronco5g forums that AFC was launching a hardtop and preorders were going to be available soon. I called them the day preorders went live and asked, 'Are you still on time for shipping in September?' They assured me that they would have my order out, and I would have my hardtop before the cold, snowy Chicago winter. We are talking about the winter of '22 here. I ordered my hardtop in February or March of 2022. My order was for a modular hardtop with the sound deadening panels and the rear washer assembly. All in all, it came out to $7,393.80! Expensive, I know, but this was the ONLY aftermarket hardtop on the market at the time.

I then received ZERO communication from AFC until December of that year (10 or 9 months if you're keeping track). In December, I received an email with the subject line 'Our Hardtop Is Right Around The Corner'. The actual email is attached in its entirety. For those who don't want to download it, I'll summarize: they blamed the delay on 'rubber delays', but not to worry, the rubber is en route, and they will contact me soon to arrange shipping. I then emailed them again on 1/22/23 and asked for an update almost a full month later; they were still waiting on rubber. IN APRIL OF '23, we got an email saying the rubber has shipped. On March 4th, an email saying the rubber has arrived.

At this point, I want all the readers to take a break and think about something: it sounds like they are keeping me updated. Wrong. At NO point are they giving us shipping estimates. Remember, at this point, everyone's annoyed that this was promised in September of '22.

We then got about 4 fluff emails of some nerdy kid jumping on the hardtop as if we gave a shit. That brings us to 11/17/23 where we got an email apologizing (1st and only one) but saying they will update us EVERY 30 DAYS, but don't blame AFC as it's not their fault; it's the fault of all their suppliers. Their words, not mine.

11/28/23: the big day. I got an email talking about how I'm in 'batch 1' and my hardtop will be shipping 'in the middle of January'. That's the title; if you read deeper, it says 'mid-January to early February'.

Now let's talk about today. I emailed them asking for an update as we are in the beginning/middle of February, and I got a response from Chris, and I'll copy and paste that message below:

'We're working off of adjusted timelines right now, and expect to have your order shipped in late March. I'll reach out to you once I have a firmer ETA, feel free to give me a call if you have any questions or concerns! 714-695-8400'

So let me paraphrase for you: 'We got delayed again. I think maybe March. Even though we suck at communicating and haven't thus far, trust us when we say we'll reach out to you.' At this point, I'm fed up. I call. And I get 0 apologies, just a 'Yeah, labor shortages, what are you going to do?' and I have now canceled my order.

Now let me give my take for all the people still with me. I own (actually not anymore, I just sold the company) a production and manufacturing company. My company trucked on through a global pandemic and a labor shortage. These are bold-faced lies that AFC is telling people in hopes they don't cancel their order. The zero apologies offered are offensive to the customers who spent over 7 grand on a product that never showed up. AFC needs to do better and should do better. The issue is they won't. They have some nerdy kid jumping on the one hardtop ever produced and claiming we'll get it soon. When you complain, you get told, 'Well, we can refund you if you're so upset,' so they leave you with two shitty choices: 1) keep waiting, or 2) get a refund and then wait for months with a different company. At this point, I choose to get the refund and wait for a better product like from Turn Off Road or wait for the OEMs to become available.

moral of the story, FUCK @ADV Fiberglass

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk, sorry about the rant, I've been holding that in for a while.

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[Ninjak]

Well written and from the perspective of a person who wants a product that has been paid for in full. It's not that you can receive a refund. That should not even be brought into this conversation. The real issue is TIME.

Time is the one commodity that you cannot put a price on. The fact that many have wasted nearly two years of their time, waiting on a product that is still delayed, with little to zero communication is unacceptable. Now some may say what does it matter? It matters. It should matter to anyone who conducts business. It is not a way one should go about things, and the lack of communication on the subject makes it worse.

The tired excuses of "supply chain" and "labor shortage" have run its course. I truly hope ADV gets it together. I want them to succeed. But as it stands, it will take quite a bit to repair their reputation from this, and I do hope, more than anything else, they learn from it.

 

[cobro92]

It’s one thing to understand that you won’t be delivering products for a while, but are taking pre-orders anyways. It’s another thing to have production delays. Those things happen.

But the fact that they required the full payment up front is really unacceptable when they knew there was no way they could get them out quickly enough. Seems like they took peoples money up front before they even developed the product fully, so they wouldn’t have to absorb so much of the costs. And then they compound this even further with really poor customer service. Yuck.

 

[3175375]

Thanks for the summary. AFC is not a world class company and continues to demonstrate that it isn’t. I don’t understand how the owners and management can sleep at night or look in the mirror. And they vote, too!

 

[nickyp1020]

It’s one thing to understand that you won’t be delivering products for a while, but are taking pre-orders anyways. It’s another thing to have production delays. Those things happen.

But the fact that they required the full payment up front is really unacceptable when they knew there was no way they could get them out quickly enough. Seems like they took peoples money up front before they even developed the product fully, so they wouldn’t have to absorb so much of the costs. And then they compound this even further with really poor customer service. Yuck.

Well written and from the perspective of a person who wants a product that has been paid for in full. It's not that you can receive a refund. That should not even be brought into this conversation. The real issue is TIME.

Time is the one commodity that you cannot put a price on. The fact that many have wasted nearly two years of their time, waiting on a product that is still delayed, with little to zero communication is unacceptable. Now some may say what does it matter? It matters. It should matter to anyone who conducts business. It is not a way one should go about things, and the lack of communication on the subject makes it worse.

The tired excuses of "supply chain" and "labor shortage" have run its course. I truly hope ADV gets it together. I want them to succeed. But as it stands, it will take quite a bit to repair their reputation from this, and I do hope, more than anything else, they learn from it.

Both of you are right. When I asked Chris from ADV "what happend to the 30 day updates?" he kind of just mubled some words together but the jist was "i dont know"

 

[Cux211]

IMO I feel they should have never takin full payment for something that was non existent I can see taking a deposit but every other ting I can thing of that I’ve ordered was not charged to me until it shipped

 

[JediMcMuffin]

Hopefully the main post is allowed to stay up, it may get moderated.

Realistically, I am disappointed for so many folks. I WANTED the ADV product, I want and saw it with my own eyes and put hands on it. It looks GREAT. I got bad vibes fairly early on and decided to simply wait until the first orders started shipping. I always thought their big differentiator was that you could get a 1-piece top for ultimate rigidity and sealing for those that use their Broncos as camping workhorses and not wheeling/toys.

I have no idea how folks have hung on. The wait for our Broncos was long enough, but Ford only took $100 upfront for a 60K vehicle because the demand was there.

I literally sat in the Turn Offroad shop while they installed my top on Tuesday, and chatted with another Bronco6G member who was doing the same. I showed him my photo gallery of the AFC top and he's like wow, that looks really nice. I sincerely hope this turns around.

 

[pakrat]

Have to laugh at this point. I've been expressing the same sentiments for almost a year now. They just needed to tell the truth and couldn't because at some point they made the decision to go for the big bucks and move production overseas. They were hiding the fact that what was obviously sold as a product made in CA was going to be made overseas and that significantly slowed the process. They lied period. Technically it could be all of their excuses but clearly they had the labor and supplies to get a dozen or so out into the hands of "beta testers".

They should have been making them all along in-house and getting them out to customers even if it was at a snails pace. Then when the overseas production kicked in they would have been golden. Heck, look at AC hardtops, they trickle out but you don't here anyone bitching about them because they at least keep producing them and getting them into customers hands. This is a limited market and they have really screwed themselves. As the Bronco gets refreshed who knows if these tops will continue to fit. The biggest market is clearly people who bought soft tops (like me) to get a Bronco faster in the beginning. Those Broncos are aging out rapidly. Imagine the audacity to say prices are going up once pre-orders are satisfied. Good luck when you are already the highest priced out there (carbon fiber AC not withstanding).

When you ask them to give you any type of reason not to cancel and they give you nothing other than the same old response, you cancel then and there as I did.

 

[vrtical]

For those left, I would cancel and get your money back before its all gone.

 

[Grift3r]

Just came here to say sorry that happened to you, that sucks. Thanks for the warning about the company. Cheers and hope you are able to get what you want sooner than later mate.

 

[cr117]

I want them to succeed. But as it stands, it will take quite a bit to repair their reputation from this, and I do hope, more than anything else, they learn from it.

It’s okay, they can just spin up a new company under a different name like last time.

 

[BroncoBoy22]

Can’t believe how bad ADV fumbled this. I feel sorry for all their customers. And they keep saying they have the best hardtop in the industry. they have vaporware until those things start shipping.

 

[CTwaterfowler]

There are tens, if not hundreds, of posts bashing AFC on this website already, and this post is not intended to 'pile on'.

I saw through the bronco5g forums that AFC was launching a hardtop and preorders were going to be available soon. I called them the day preorders went live and asked, 'Are you still on time for shipping in September?' They assured me that they would have my order out, and I would have my hardtop before the cold, snowy Chicago winter. We are talking about the winter of '22 here. I ordered my hardtop in February or March of 2022. My order was for a modular hardtop with the sound deadening panels and the rear washer assembly. All in all, it came out to $7,393.80! Expensive, I know, but this was the ONLY aftermarket hardtop on the market at the time.

I then received ZERO communication from AFC until December of that year (10 or 9 months if you're keeping track). In December, I received an email with the subject line 'Our Hardtop Is Right Around The Corner'. The actual email is attached in its entirety. For those who don't want to download it, I'll summarize: they blamed the delay on 'rubber delays', but not to worry, the rubber is en route, and they will contact me soon to arrange shipping. I then emailed them again on 1/22/23 and asked for an update almost a full month later; they were still waiting on rubber. IN APRIL OF '23, we got an email saying the rubber has shipped. On March 4th, an email saying the rubber has arrived.

At this point, I want all the readers to take a break and think about something: it sounds like they are keeping me updated. Wrong. At NO point are they giving us shipping estimates. Remember, at this point, everyone's annoyed that this was promised in September of '22.

We then got about 4 fluff emails of some nerdy kid jumping on the hardtop as if we gave a shit. That brings us to 11/17/23 where we got an email apologizing (1st and only one) but saying they will update us EVERY 30 DAYS, but don't blame AFC as it's not their fault; it's the fault of all their suppliers. Their words, not mine.

11/28/23: the big day. I got an email talking about how I'm in 'batch 1' and my hardtop will be shipping 'in the middle of January'. That's the title; if you read deeper, it says 'mid-January to early February'.

Now let's talk about today. I emailed them asking for an update as we are in the beginning/middle of February, and I got a response from Chris, and I'll copy and paste that message below:

'We're working off of adjusted timelines right now, and expect to have your order shipped in late March. I'll reach out to you once I have a firmer ETA, feel free to give me a call if you have any questions or concerns! 714-695-8400'

So let me paraphrase for you: 'We got delayed again. I think maybe March. Even though we suck at communicating and haven't thus far, trust us when we say we'll reach out to you.' At this point, I'm fed up. I call. And I get 0 apologies, just a 'Yeah, labor shortages, what are you going to do?' and I have now canceled my order.

Now let me give my take for all the people still with me. I own (actually not anymore, I just sold the company) a production and manufacturing company. My company trucked on through a global pandemic and a labor shortage. These are bold-faced lies that AFC is telling people in hopes they don't cancel their order. The zero apologies offered are offensive to the customers who spent over 7 grand on a product that never showed up. AFC needs to do better and should do better. The issue is they won't. They have some nerdy kid jumping on the one hardtop ever produced and claiming we'll get it soon. When you complain, you get told, 'Well, we can refund you if you're so upset,' so they leave you with two shitty choices: 1) keep waiting, or 2) get a refund and then wait for months with a different company. At this point, I choose to wait for a better product like from Turn Off Road or wait for the OEMs to become available.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk, sorry about the rant, I've been holding that in for a while.

Well , that sums up pretty much everyone's experience so far.
The only difference is , I was told I am scheduled for early March. Order was in first 24 minutes.
HOWEVER, while the hopefully just screwed the pooch unintentionally on communications, they can still improve by updating people more timely.
I'm still hanging in there and hopefully they will start shipping.
I still firmly believe that this is a result of a poor management decision, loosing control of authority by outsourcing . A performance bond, loc etc may have provided they with more authority. But I don't know any details so I can't say.

 

[Doc TOC]

My 2 penny thought. (I don't have a dog in this fight.)

Time is money. (Remember your car payment and mortgage?)
They would have had to borrow prime rate money to drag this out. Instead, they are using yours. Look at how much each of you have saved them.

Your Funding​	1st Year @7% Avg​	2nd Year @ 7% Avg​	You Saved Them at Least​
5,250​	368​	393​	761​
5,500​	385​	412​	797​
5,800​	406​	434​	840​
6,075​	425​	455​	880​

Assuming 100 orders and 80% wanted "Premium", 20% "Plain", they saved at least $85,600 on the $591,000 you gave them. That's as good as a Go Fund Me page.

What might be the right thing to do at this point?
Refund everybody's money, with interest?
When the deliverable product is in stock, they can show pictures and announce it's availability.

They might not have the cash flow to do it. (Total conjecture on my part.)
Maybe that's why you are hearing the "my dog ate my homework" responses?

For those who donated, I feel your frustration.
Waiting is to their benefit.

P.S. Just presenting some often over looked facts.

 

[OJK]

ADV basically took out a 2 year zero interest loan from their prospective customers. Infinitely cheaper than going to the bank for a loan and they can also park that cash into an interest bearing account earning them extra cash.

Savvy financially on their part but very suspect as a business practice taking advantage of their customers that way.

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