CTI score flex comparison between Sasquatch, Raptor, Icon, Radflo, King suspension

[87-Z28]

I also use custom 3D printed bump stops to really dial in the upward movement of the suspension to maximize my flex without crushing body panels.

what Material do you use? Do you design the geometry and taylor the material properties? I think there is clearly plenty of margin there to play with. Also to design robust bump stops that are far more optimized.

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[popo_patty]

What springs were on the Radflos? 650lb/in?

yup

 

[87-Z28]

@flip sorry to bother, but is it possible to purchase just OEM bump stops. Both hitachi and bilsteins, in case they are different. Maybe 2 or 3 of each. How much and what would part numbers be?

 

[Tex]

Yea, its a bit disappointing. The "it is what it is" part for me is less about IFS though and more about where the aftermarket is targeting its products.

IFS has a lot more jounce to give in the stock Bronco. But every kit you see is about just adding lift and a bit more droop travel. (thats where the money is I guess). We need some kits that bring us true high clearance fenders, and coilovers/LCA's that give us more jounce travel. It should be easy to get 50% more front travel from jounce but nobody makes anything for it... the quarter panels are bolt on afterall, it couldn't be easier for the aftermarket!

Right now your option for big flex is to shell out for portals to get the jounce clearance, and hope you can get coilovers that are optimized to maximize your newfound clearance and angles. The diff-drop/knuckle kits still don't really give us the up travel that they could and should. You can use longer arms and some trimming to get useful improvements too but those have their own drawbacks.

@BigMeatsBronco could tell you why bolting on new quarter panel/fenders won't really get you there. Lots of cutting and relocating stuff that isn't quarter panel related to fit without rubbing.

The biggest problem with up travel is the upper shock mount, you can only compress a length of shock so much until it's just physically not possible to compress it any further, so to get more up travel you need a new shock tower to relocate it higher, and now a longer shock is necessary to let it droop just as much as it did before, but now that the shock is longer it won't compress as much, so you need to relocate a little higher, and you're never really done until you have shocks poking out of the hood and no rear seats because there are shocks in the way, so you might as well as a bypass or two on each corner and some hydro bumps to finish it off.

Drop bracket style lift kits can be an option for more flex and tire clearance if done correctly. You can set the a-arms parallel at ride height or slightly up (ideally with the tie-rods level too) instead of going for that 4-6" lift, which allows them to split the difference in travel between angled up and angled down. The other advantage is if you leave your OEM shock tower in place, a 6" bracket lift means you just relocated your shock tower up 6"...giving you more options to run a longer shock. Most of these kits come with some sort of spacer so you can re-use your stock shocks, totally negating the benefit of extra shock length. A new set of a-arms would likely be all but necessary for this to take advantage of the new range of travel, along with caster/camber/steering considerations. A ground-up design would include a corrected roll center in the a-arm mounting points and maybe even a modified spindle to help in that regard.

You're definitely correct in regard to what demographic is being targeted by the current lineup of suspension kits. Most aren't looking to add much if any additional wheel travel, they want a lift or they want it to look nice or ride better. Long travel suspension certainly isn't for everyone, but there's definitely a market for it, in both high speed desert and low speed rocks. I'm already past the point of getting disappointed with expensive new Bronco suspension kits because I already know they're just billet chunks or steel tubes with OEM specs. RTR and APG are the only ones with decent kits, but RTR is never going to put their stuff on the market, and nobody can afford APG because they won't sell their suspension separate of all that other crap.

 

[TeocaliMG]

@BigMeatsBronco could tell you why bolting on new quarter panel/fenders won't really get you there. Lots of cutting and relocating stuff that isn't quarter panel related to fit without rubbing.

Believe me I know, an oversimplification perhaps, but nothing that isnt manageable, Keep in mind, a lot of that trimming wasnt just to get more up travel, it was to clear 40" tires with a bit more up travel than stock Broncos. No easy feat. If we are talking about getting big flex out of 35's or even 37's to a lesser extent a redesign of the quarter panel and wheel liner would go a very long way.

So long as the shock/LCA makers are on board with using it. The reason I mentioned LCA's along with shocks in my original post was exactly for the reason you brought up. You can only get so much stroke length out of a given space. As you mentioned, this is where a diff-drop or portal kit can be very helpful. No need relocate the shock towers to get long travel shocks in. A happy medium could be mild shock tower bracing, aftermarket shocks that have a bit more stroke (a bit more is certainly possible over stock). Adjusting the position of the shock mount downwards and perhaps inwards on a custom LCA. Obviously this is advanced stuff, should be combined with proper tuning, and bump stops. But it is definitely possible to get big travel if you have slightly longer shock travel, with an LCA optimized for it and tire clearance above.

I still like to idea of a well executed diff drop kit, but am not excited about cutting sub frame members.

 

[flip]

@flip sorry to bother, but is it possible to purchase just OEM bump stops. Both hitachi and bilsteins, in case they are different. Maybe 2 or 3 of each. How much and what would part numbers be?

Hitachi front, standard suspension MB3Z-18198-B 6G price $30.60/ea.
Bilstein front MB3Z-18198-C $31.44/ea.
Hitachi rear, standard MB3Z-5K570-B $54.48/ea.
Bilstein rear MB3Z-5K570-C $47.40/ea.

 

[Tex]

Believe me I know, an oversimplification perhaps, but nothing that isnt manageable, Keep in mind, a lot of that trimming wasnt just to get more up travel, it was to clear 40" tires with a bit more up travel than stock Broncos. No easy feat. If we are talking about getting big flex out of 35's or even 37's to a lesser extent a redesign of the quarter panel and wheel liner would go a very long way.

So long as the shock/LCA makers are on board with using it. The reason I mentioned LCA's along with shocks in my original post was exactly for the reason you brought up. You can only get so much stroke length out of a given space. As you mentioned, this is where a diff-drop or portal kit can be very helpful. No need relocate the shock towers to get long travel shocks in. A happy medium could be mild shock tower bracing, aftermarket shocks that have a bit more stroke (a bit more is certainly possible over stock). Adjusting the position of the shock mount downwards and perhaps inwards on a custom LCA. Obviously this is advanced stuff, should be combined with proper tuning, and bump stops. But it is definitely possible to get big travel if you have slightly longer shock travel, with an LCA optimized for it and tire clearance above.

I still like to idea of a well executed diff drop kit, but am not excited about cutting sub frame members.

Yeahhhhhh but who wants to wheel with 37's, I want to wheel with 40's. I want to be able to tell people that my biggest limitation in up travel is that the tire keeps rubbing the hood, that's my goal LOL

It's odd that it seems like the community thinks there's something different about Bronco IFS that's limiting travel, but it's really no different than any other IFS, and there's a lot of IFS rigs getting way more wheel travel out of the same width a-arms. It's all in what you intend to do with it.

It does kinda suck to cut bits of frame off a new vehicle, but the positive to that is you'll still be able to revert to stock if you keep the cut parts and find a decent shop to have them weld it back together. I'm also not in love with the huge subframe hanging down either. Portals and shock towers are still the way to go if you're wanting to maximize up travel, but that's a huge investment on its own.

 

[JohnGalt]

Simple physics. The only way to meet or beat travel is use the same or longer LCAs on the Raptor. There are long travel setups already in use that probably do beat those numbers, although some are just getting the Raptor LCAs and CV axles. Replacing coilovers allow for more compression or extension, but are still limited by the geometry of the stock suspension. The only way to beat it is to change it.

This is a really detailed article on how the Raptor gets it done vs. a standard Bronco. It’d be hard to replicate aftermarket without spending $$$$$

https://www.theautopian.com/how-for...usly-hardcore-purpose-built-off-road-monster/

 

[MyDogGoldie]

Also keep in mind the tires on a raptor are soft C rated BFG 37s. (Flexy Small Diameter)

What would be the flex numbers if the other rigs ran smaller tires?

What would the Raptor numbers be if they ran heavier sidewall E rated Nittos?

 

[DreamFolise]

I didn't see the Fox 2.5 setup, wonder what those measurements would score.

 

[popo_patty]

Also keep in mind the tires on a raptor are soft C rated BFG 37s. (Flexy Small Diameter)

What would be the flex numbers if the other rigs ran smaller tires?

What would the Raptor numbers be if they ran heavier sidewall E rated Nittos?

Don’t know but definitely much better still. You can just tell. I also took all of them out to a dirt track and jumped them and then flexed them and then rock crawled. Raptor takes the cake all day every day

 

[popo_patty]

I didn't see the Fox 2.5 setup, wonder what those measurements would score.

Similar to King I’d expect but yea. I wanted ADS and Fox but didn’t have a Bronco available with that setup.

 

[DreamFolise]

Similar to King I’d expect but yea. I wanted ADS and Fox but didn’t have a Bronco available with that setup.

If you're ever near Chicago and want to test it, I installed it a couple weeks ago.

 

[22Badskwatch]

The Bronco is actually exceptionally good stock. Right on par with Wrangler. But no-one argues that its easier/cheaper to get big flex out of the Wrangler in the aftermarket. Wouldn't be as bad if IFS aftermarket was more flex focused.

I'm super happy with the Badsquatch as it is - I wouldn't want the Bronco to have SFA - a couple reasons -

• there's already an option with heavy market penetration that's been available for decades to provide a top-less off roading experience with SFA - it wouldn't seem wise to go after that same exact demographic
• I prefer speed off road. Rock crawling is nowhere near as much fun, not to mention the amazing on-road handling capability of the Bronco. I don't want the Bronco to be a direct competitor for the Jeep.. so I'm glad they took a slightly different approach

 

[87-Z28]

I didn't see the Fox 2.5 setup, wonder what those measurements would score.

on a level playing field, all variables identical, fox should be lower than king. Less shock travel from matrix above. Raptor has longer LCA and different motion ratios so better travel at the wheel. Not same playing field.

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