Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

Tonsterboy

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So basically I should of reserved with my local dealer that wouldn’t commit on a price. This same dealer now has several “abandoned” orders with an ADM up to $60k. This same dealer calls people before delivery and throws an adm at the order holder.
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Andy_M

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I don’t see what the big deal is here. 98% will get their reservations filled by the end of 2022. The cost of getting $1-2k under invoice turns out to be a slightly longer wait. Everything is a gamble, sometimes it pays off and other times it doesn’t.
 

Razorback

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I've always liked the communication and help from Levine; but as Communications Director, that was horrible communication. I hope he clarifies the backhand comment that set this off around small dealers.
 

RedHotFuzz

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If Stellantis could actually get out of its own way and make a more reliable product, they would just murder Ford in this space. They have the interiors and finish pretty well nailed. Just need some reliable mechanics and electrical/computer systems. My Grand Cherokee Overland was one of the favorite cars I owned, ticked all the boxes, except the 6 months of the 2.5 years I owned it that it didn't work at all.
I've never owned a Ford, and my first and only Chrysler product is my 2016 Durango R/T that got a water pump from a bad manufacturing batch that ended up catastrophically, oh, and a stupid taillight design that fills with water and burns out the LEDs (I'm on my 4th now), but is reliability really the primary selling point for any of the Big 3?
 

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I understand why people are upset, but look at the numbers, 190,000 reservation spread out among how many dealers with 800 or so at the larger dealership, those larger dealers have been selling thousands of Fords a year for a long time and Ford is not going to piss them off. And they have been vocal about getting their units too.

Granger and those other 4 or 5 may have 800 or so reservations too, but even with the other small dealers mentioned, their combined their total number of reservations equal maybe 2,500-4,000 reservations (for those 4 or 5 dealers), mean while Ford has over 100 large dealerships in major markets that are responsible for 80,000 plus units (combined, 800x100) maybe more with the top 30% of dealers, so which squeaky wheel is Ford going to listen to?

I went with a larger family owned dealership and am still paying MSRP with no markups, not every large dealer is the devil.

And yes they have a right to grow their business, but not every model will be a hot seller like the Bronco and unless they become an internet boutique that moves a lot of metal through people that are willing to travel to them, their location will limit their sales and lesser vehicles. Mean while that dealer that moves a couple of thousand units... or more will easily compete price wise on "everyday" vehicles.

So, Ford will piss off a few thousand to keep the rest of the 190,000 happy.

I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this and I'm not an Ford's apologist, I'm just looking at the numbers. In a perfect world Ford could reward a few movers like Granger and take care of the big boys, but that opens a can of worms with the next 100+ small dealers that didn't do that but want the same.
 

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Did the same thing. Small dealer that has been nothing but straight with me over the years, no reason to jump ship. He's had some of his '21 orders come in and delivered so no reason he won't get his '22's. Just quietly watching all this unfold and everyone flocking to a random dealer across country. I feel a sense of commitment to this dealer as I'm treated like family with them. No reason to think my Bronco order would be handled any differently than a F350 or GT 500 order that I've had with them over the years. I'll see it when I see it. Some of ya'll going to stroke out from stress over this before you even get your Bronco.
 

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My situation is unique in that I'm perfectly happy to wait until MY23/24. I saw my reservation as an option to buy a bronco for 2k under invoice at some point in the future. I was never under any impression I'd get one before late 22. My calculus was get in 22, daily drive for 5 years, then make it an offroader. At that point my 4runner would be 20 years old, which might be an issue.

My only frustration is I'm guessing ford will stop doing price protection for MY23.
The MSRP price protection guaranteed by Ford in the form of rebate certificates is worthless anyways. I mean, who cares if you get an $800 rebate certificate after purchase from Ford when the dealership just raped you with a $10k ADM.
 

Theherofails

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I don’t see what the big deal is here. 98% will get their reservations filled by the end of 2022. The cost of getting $1-2k under invoice turns out to be a slightly longer wait. Everything is a gamble, sometimes it pays off and other times it doesn’t.
I could be wrong, but I think the general problem people have is that this new 'deal' isn't the deal they signed up for in the beginning. There was never any mention of arbitrary dealer quotas in the first 12 months of waiting, yet here we are now where some early reservation holders won't see a vehicle until the mid-cycle refresh in 2024/2025.

Ford very clearly and repeatedly said that Broncos were going to be delivered on a reservation system based heavily on timestamp. Now it appears your choice in dealer can override that concept and leave you waiting for years.
 

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I personally don't care about dealer allocations, one dealer being treated 'better' than another, state laws pertaining to auto sales, etc. I care about getting my Bronco. Ford can fix this by simply building the damn broncos based on reservation time / date stamp / parts constraints as originally stated they would, and sending them out, regardless of what dealer that reservation is tied to. Simple.
I've said this before. Ford just needs to honor reservation time stamp on all orders before the price protection guarantee. Anything after that dead line is subject to dealer allocation. This still isn't the best model for small dealerships but it fixes the issues at hand.
 

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In case anyone's been waiting for an answer:
@mrlevine Fill your Bronco reservation orders ahead of allocations. We’ve already waited 15 months. Stop punishing your customers. #reservationsoverallocations
His answer tells me they just don't care.

in case he deletes his tweet, here's what it says:

Mike Levine
Replying to @robtraut and @KogodBiz
That’s exactly the plan for more than 98% of customers that didn’t place orders with a small dealer that created a special deal to attract a large number of orders.
Ford has hundreds of other dealers to consider. The same way they don't want dealers gouging customers, they don't want a small dealer having people travel from all around the country to pick up a Bronco and then head home, expecting the local dealer to take care of them as though they bought it there. Put yourself in another dealers shoes. You are a Ford shop, you are offering fair (MSRP?) pricing and you have a Bronco specialist. You loose sails or margin because a dealer 500 miles away is "low balling", knowing they can sell a few warranties, custom parts and accessories and then never have to deal with day to day customer service issues. I think Granger is fine and I bought mine at a small dealer, close to my cabin, not the larger and closer dealer near my house. The outrage is misplaced IMO. My little dealer sent one rep to Off-Roadeo in TX and one to Moab, they have done all the training and were super knowledgeable. Why should Granger get anything more than my dealer when they are doing everything I could ask (including not using a priority code and my Bronco being delivered before three employee orders). Makes sense to me from the Dealer, Ford and most customer perspective.
 

MNbronco

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I understand why people are upset, but look at the numbers, 190,000 reservation spread out among how many dealers with 800 or so at the larger dealership, those larger dealers have been selling thousands of Fords a year for a long time and Ford is not going to piss them off. And they have been vocal about getting their units too.

Granger and those other 4 or 5 may have 800 or so reservations too, but even with the other small dealers mentioned, their combined their total number of reservations equal maybe 2,500-4,000 reservations (for those 4 or 5 dealers), mean while Ford has over 100 large dealerships in major markets that are responsible for 80,000 plus units (combined, 800x100) maybe more with the top 30% of dealers, so which squeaky wheel is Ford going to listen to?

I went with a larger family owned dealership and am still paying MSRP with no markups, not every large dealer is the devil.

And yes they have a right to grow their business, but not every model will be a hot seller like the Bronco and unless they become an internet boutique that moves a lot of metal through people that are willing to travel to them, their location will limit their sales and lesser vehicles. Mean while that dealer that moves a couple of thousand units... or more will easily compete price wise on "everyday" vehicles.

So, Ford will piss off a few thousand to keep the rest of the 190,000 happy.

I'm probably going to get a lot of crap for this and I'm not an Ford's apologist, I'm just looking at the numbers. In a perfect world Ford could reward a few movers like Granger and take care of the big boys, but that opens a can of worms with the next 100+ small dealers that didn't do that but want the same.
Big dealer or small dealer does not matter, Ford stated they were building all reservations prior to stock units...that is the issue. If a big dealer wants more reservations then they should have been more competitive and transparent regarding price.
 
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I canceled my bronco reservation and went Chapman Automotive (Ford, CDJR) and ordered a Rubicon 392 from them and I pick it up next week 6% under invoice (no BS, no BS fees or gimmicks)
I wish I could say the same. But I'm stuck. Jeep doesn't have a true competitor to the 2dr base mansquatch in their stable. Willys Xtreme Recon is thus far announced for 4drs only and auto only, and that's too many doors and not enough pedals for me.

If i were in the 2.7 auto lux 4dr bronco market, i would have absolutely abandoned ship for a 392 at invoice-6%. Hell a fully loaded 4dr Badlands runs 62k and a rough estimate of invoice-6 on a 392 is 66k, 69 with xtreme? that's a LOT more truck for 4/7k.
 

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Why do people keep insisting that people placed orders with SAC and Stephens and Granger and Chapmam Horsham and Kearny Mesa to "get a few thousand off" when that is not the case.

The majority of people are just like me, my local dealer, the one where Ford automatically put my reservation WOULDN'T EVEN TALK TO ME. Even when I showed up in person, they just kept giving me the brush off.

Me: I've got a reservation for a Bronco, who do I speak to about this?

Them: You can't order Broncos yet, and we really aren't sure who is going to do that.

Me (different day question to a different person): I've got some questions about buying a Bronco, can you help me?

Them: The 1970 Bronco is not for sale, it's just a display.

Me: No, I have a Bronco reserved here and want to ask a couple of questions.

Nope, couldn't help me.

So I called Albert and he gave me his cell number and wrote down times for my lunch and planning period so he wouldn't call while I was teaching class...

...even before I gave them a reservation!

Mike Levine apparently has no clue. Maybe he can give us a list of honest dealers with higher allocation than reservations. Or even a list of honest dealers... because the forum compiled this information and these are the very dealers Ford is refusing to give adequate allocation.

And by the way... It's not a good business model to openly admit you are only going to help 98% of your customers.
Warning-long-ass post here.

VERY similar story here. I ended up at a dealer in TX at MSRP. Free trip out to pick it up, free accommodations overnight.
I was ridiculed and laughed at, questioned openly "WHY would you do such a thing for only MSRP? You're stupid for that, stay local or go to Granger for the deal."
I tried local first.
I believe in investing in small businesses and local as much as possible.
I have no less than 5 different Ford Dealers I consider local, all owned by 5 different owners.
-One did not and would not talk to me when I inquired. Not even in person, as RBF mentioned above.
-Another did not answer any calls or emails, but did take the time to talk to me in person for 2 minutes, basically saying every erroneous statement there is about the Bronco, which showed me I needed to run away.
-Another up front committed to "fair market ADM".
-Fourth one Said they "probably could do MSRP", but absolutely would not commit to it in writing, and had a $900 Doc fee plus mandatory $1500 window tint/pinstriping/paint protection package added on.
-Fifth one literally laughed in my face for wanting them to commit to MSRP, said "good luck, pal.", and turned to walk away from me.

I tried a few 2 hours away while we were still able to transfer dealers before ordering.
Same situation.
-One turned his back to me once I told him I was reserved out of state, even before I could explain that I was still shopping local to try and find someone to transfer to.
-Another was GREAT to work with, but simply said with respect "We can't match your MSRP deal, as much as we would like to, so I'd stay where you are."

SO how much due diligence and shopping of larger market dealers are we expected to do as consumers to find an even moderately respectful, honest, fair person to deal with?

If I have to put in all that work just to be treated like someone other than a peasant, I'll go shop somewhere where I am not treated that way.

If I had not liked the ride and feel of the Bronco so much, I'd already be in a new Jeep. Salesman there listened and responded within hours of every single request for quote, every single test drive, knowing I was only a potential customer.
And even after I told him I would not be switching, we have had good, decent conversations about me referring others to his business who were looking for Jeeps.

It is all about how you treat customers. Treat us like human beings and not some expendable cash cow. Get at least a higher percentage or dealerships who also are approachable and respectful than not. Have a shred of humility for something other than a photo op. It's not really that difficult of a concept.

But then again, a man's word isn't worth the oxygen it took to speak it, most of the time, these days. The world had moved on from such things as honor, integrity, respect.
So when people DO find those qualities, I don't blame them for flocking to it, price discount or not.

I did, and it ended up damn near 2500 miles away. But it will be one heck of a trip home.

Where I ordered, the actual family member who owns the series of dealerships talked to me back and forth way prior to me committing. The actual owner. And a lot of people cannot get a salesperson to return a call or give them an ounce of time/respect face-to-face.

You want to boost your brand, capture market share, rise above the avg.? Support and bolster the positive representatives of your product.
 

JDS

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I've never owned a Ford, and my first and only Chrysler product is my 2016 Durango R/T that got a water pump from a bad manufacturing batch that ended up catastrophically, oh, and a stupid taillight design that fills with water and burns out the LEDs (I'm on my 4th now), but is reliability really the primary selling point for any of the Big 3?
Fair Point. Of course when its a computer issue from the electronic shifter that is telling the vehicle it is not in park, even when it is in park in actual fact, so the car won't turn off...ever.... oh and parts.....we don't have no stinkin parts.... and this was all pre-covid. Good times.....good times.
 
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