Kicker Key Amp 200.4 Install DIY Video - Do this first!

[Billnchristy]

Here's a chart of the frequency range of instruments/voices. If you start filtering at 600 you're kicking a lot of that job over to the kick panel.

I would put the localization of sound in the 200-1500hz area. It's the vital midrange for music and it's where your ears can really locate the sound. Bass envelopes you because of the long and slow sound wave. Treble is hard to locate, ever have an alarm going off and you just can't find it?

Most people really hear jack above 10-12k. We did a test at the installer institute and younger folks (like I was at the time, only 18) could hear upto 16k while older folks were in the 10-12 range). You'll note, very little musical information comes from up there too.

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[Chirico]

What are your amp gains at? You may be enabling compression early because you're overdriving your inputs. Try to run the gains as low as possible so you're not sending clipped inputs to the amp. Start around half.

I'm not used to high level inputs because it's not a great way to get good sound but we have what we have so let's work with it.

Never try to set up your stereo to run wide open, you'll be giving up a lot. Most aftermarket units will even clip outputs at max volume, you can damn-well better believe this Ford unit is. I always try to tune to 3/4 volume being the max with maybe a little bit of head-room when you're feeling frisky.

On this unit I'd probably start with 5/8. Set gains where things sound really good there, then run the DSP.

I'd probably skip compression, let your ears decide if you are distorting and turn down, compression is just that, it smooshes everything to keep the outputs from clipping, but all it really does is make a "wall of sound". Look into 1990s compression wars and look at the outputs that albums were using, there is no dynamic range because it's practically 0 to 100 with nothing in between. You lose nuance, which sounds like mud.

As for polarity, with the system off, just "pop" the speakers with a battery and see which way the cone extends.

Tape a lead onto a AA battery and connect to the plus and minus of the speaker (disconnected from system). Make them all extend the same direction.

When I was an installer, we used our drill batteries but for small speakers a AA is fine but a 9v is super convenient because you can buy one of the little cap things and have a popper ready-made. It will be violent with a small speaker though, so AA and some electrical tape will do the trick, but be a little finicky.

EDIT 600- Looking at the pic it looks like the gains are super sensitive as they are almost all the way down so maybe just start at zero, volume at 5/8 (not sure what the max number, if it's 30 then do like 17-19) and get a good clean sound with no mud or distortion. Go from there. You want gains as low as possible, if they're already near the edge of distortion then you're just going to feed the amp crap. Even if you have to run at a higher volume than you used to, it's better off. Once you have a clean signal going in we can work on the output.

Really appreciate for the detailed answer and advice.

What I did was simply following the Kicker's manual.

- Run auto DSP with 3/4 (@22) of max volume. (HU Audio control at default)
- Increase the gain until the limiter hits and back off

Q: I thought gain setting is more like INPUT-OUTPUT matching? Rather than volume control. So I didn't play with it much.

One interesting finding from Kicker Tech support the other day:
Kicker found out that the Bronco's HU is clipping even before 50% of volume from their inhouse test.

So, I tried DSP setting with low volume the other night (even though Kicker tech support said it is not really related).
Tried volume 17, 19, and 25 (just to see and compare).
With lower volume, I had to rotate the gain nob more (again I thought it should be matched: hit the limiter and back off).

With DSP on, same muddy sound but interesting enough, it actually made some good improvement with DSP off.
I liked 17 the best but it made the control sound/ chime too loud due to higher gain setting. So ended up with setting run with volume 19 (DSP off)

By reading through your comments, I guess it could be something to do with the gain.
I will try your advice this weekend.

Thank you again.

 

[Billnchristy]

Here's a little graph I made:

I did it in half octaves so we can highlight the 3db differences. (Our ears perceive has half volume)
At 450hz with a 600hz blocker you're at half volume in a vital range of most voices and instruments. Your sound stage is now pushing down towards that speaker (kick that is much louder). It continues until we hit 75 or so which is car moving noise level (ours probably much higher). Anything under that will be drowned out which means the kick speaker has completely taken over. By the time we hit what I consider the localization limit for sound, we are 3x lower in volume. Soundstage has collapsed and is at your feet.

This considers the kick as able to output a constant 90db, which isn't feasible but throwing in more factors just makes this a mess, so we have to have a constant.

 

[Billnchristy]

Yeah if we're clipping above half volume you should never go above half volume on the stereo. The amp is just going to amplify the distortion. It's sad that we have such a god-awful source but there isn't much we can do about that.

The input gain is basically how much of the signal you're pumping into the amp. The amp then amplifies that to a power that is audible. This is the problem with high level signals, it's already loud (relatively) and rather dirty compared to a low level signal.

Ideally we could re-program the potentiometer where 100% is actually 50% so we would still have some decent volume control. I think I will be ok because I was comfortable cruising at around 11-12 when I was by myself. With the family it's much lower so we can talk.

 

[Billnchristy]

Question:

What sound source are you using when you set the gains? I see the manual says to use test tones but is this really a good method? Might be a good starter but music is dense and complex. A test tone might not hit the limiter but a techno song or super complex jazz jam might. If you hit the limiter at any point during normal operations, you're exceeding the distortion limits for the amp and this being a cheap amp and probably digital, it will sound like trash. Digital distortion is horrific sounding, harsh and buzzy. Analog distortion is also bad, but you can tolerate more of it because its soft and rounded, not a square wave.

Y'all really tweaked the audio nerd in me, thanks, it's been a while since I was passionate about car stereos!

 

[Billnchristy]

Just thought of something else to play with. Where are your tone controls on the head unit? Let the DSP work that out and run flat or maybe even less than flat if you can get a cleaner signal that way. The goal is to get the signal into the amp as clean as possible. With all the EQ available, the amp should be able to sort that out and give you something usable.

 

[Chirico]

Just thought of something else to play with. Where are your tone controls on the head unit? Let the DSP work that out and run flat or maybe even less than flat if you can get a cleaner signal that way. The goal is to get the signal into the amp as clean as possible. With all the EQ available, the amp should be able to sort that out and give you something usable.

Big TY for all the info.
Even though I don't believe that I can swallow all the tech side of info, I feel like I started understanding bigger picture of the game and getting some idea of where to hit to possibly remedy the headache.
(I started all this journey just because the Key seemed like a simple solution for the below average - even for me- sound quality. This forum has been huge help fora total newbie like me who does not know a thing about audio and car)

- I used the same Pink noise (that I ran for DSP) for the gain setting.
I will try it with some complex jazz (the muddy sound was mostly noticeable with some jazz. Especially when several instruments playing together, it becomes almost unbearable. Just plain chaotic.)

- HU tone setting was flat (middle).
And I tried with High(@middle+1)/ Mid(all the way down+1)/ Bass(-2 from middle) as well when I reran DSP setting the other night.
But there were a couple of other perimeters that I changed from the original DSP setting methods. So I was not really sure if it was affecting the end result. (Tone setting/ Auto DSP run @ different volume/ MIC facing slightly forward)
I will spend more time to isolate all the setting perimeters when I have some free time.

And from your earlier post,
I am running Kicker KS on Dash and kick panel. And another set of 4" KS on the way for the rears.
I also installed a small sub (JBL Basspro Nano) but turned it off for DSP setting.

I think what I can try now,

- Minimize distorted signal from HU (when running DSP)
- Play with the gain not to amplify distorted signal/ noise
- Explore some ways to minimize frequency interference b/w Dash and Kick

The key might be really amplifying all the weirdness when DSP on.
So it becomes much better when DSP off?
(I am still not eliminating possibility of defective Key though since most from this forum seem happy with the Key)

 

[Billnchristy]

I wish there was a way to see what the DSP actually does for the EQ settings, that would show us what's going on.

Do this:
Play your jazz track at the volume you set it on for DSP setup, see if your limit light is coming on. If it flashes once or twice real quick it's a problem but not a huge one, if it's lighting often, then it's a major issue. Also try the same track with compression off and see if there is a difference. Do it again without DSP on.

Maybe once you figure out what section is causing the limiting you can just run that section and not spend all day with the various options.

Lastly, look up a real time analyzer app on your phone. It won't be as good as a real one considering the mic quality of a phone but you can run your pink noise with DSP on and off while running the RTA and it will show you the frequency response. My guess is the DSP is boosting the hell out of your mids and causing this muddiness.

Maybe it's not your amp and it's the mic that has an issue.

 

[Chirico]

I wish there was a way to see what the DSP actually does for the EQ settings, that would show us what's going on.

Do this:
Play your jazz track at the volume you set it on for DSP setup, see if your limit light is coming on. If it flashes once or twice real quick it's a problem but not a huge one, if it's lighting often, then it's a major issue. Also try the same track with compression off and see if there is a difference. Do it again without DSP on.

Maybe once you figure out what section is causing the limiting you can just run that section and not spend all day with the various options.

Lastly, look up a real time analyzer app on your phone. It won't be as good as a real one considering the mic quality of a phone but you can run your pink noise with DSP on and off while running the RTA and it will show you the frequency response. My guess is the DSP is boosting the hell out of your mids and causing this muddiness.

Maybe it's not your amp and it's the mic that has an issue.

I will definitely follow your advice.
Good to have professional level advice/ direction with logical/ clear reasons behind.
So much easier to understand and apply.

And YES! The mic.!
I totally missed it!
It might be the reason why I am getting strange sound with DSP on but normal with DSP off!
I will have to source it from somewhere. Hopefully Kicker is kind enough.

Again, much appreciated!

 

[Jazer]

I've fallen down the audio rabbit hole (I am no audiophile, but I really do dislike the stock system. For a nearly $50k well equipped Bronco, it's just not up to par). I want the sound that matches it's price point.

I put in dash 4" w/ 300hz bass blockers & kick panel 6 3/4" Kicker CS speakers w/pigtails a week or so ago. Waiting on the rear pods as I am eyeballing the upgrade to 6.5s back there. It improved the highs/mids but still sounds really flat. I would even say noticeable bass lost from the kicks. That was a disappointment, I figured it would improve.. but after further digging found that the likely culprit is the factory head unit struggling to move the heavier magnets. Makes sense. Rather than back track and put OEM back in... I figured now what?

I've literally read through this entire thread twice over the last few weeks to not only prepare myself for install, but make the decision on whether or not I wanted to try the amp first or just throw in the sub and see if that was good enough. Ultimately wanted to do it right with all the proper harnesses, as I have done so far.

I went with kit #15 from Plug & Play Kits with the Amp & Kicker Hideaway 8". I have two young children and this is the "family" car as well as my tinker toy, so I just want well rounded sound. Not looking to damage their ear drums, LOL!

I considered just getting the amp with the attachment to add the sub later but I feel like I will still be disappointed in the bass so said F it, lets just do it all now. Thank you all for all your posts & experiences with installing & setting the amp, I have a pretty good idea of what to do now when it arrives. Also thanks if you've made it to the bottom of my word wall.

 

[menikmati]

The goal is to get the signal into the amp as clean as possible.

100% agree! Why is no one considering using a line out converter between the factory head unit and the amp? This was non-negotiable for the shop that upgraded my audio system. We used the Audiocontrol LC2i Pro to feed a clean signal to a JL Audio 5-channel amp with DSP.

https://www.audiocontrol.com/car-audio/factory-system-upgrade/

 

[Billnchristy]

The audio control is most definitely a better converter than what's built in the kicker but it's still the same thing.

 

[Chirico]

Just out of curiosity,

If I wanted to feed fully restored signal to all channels, I could place a LOC/ Summing Processor b/w HU and Amp?
(Need 6 channel LOC/ summing processor if wanted to add a sub? 4 in from HU and serving F/R and added sub?)

Not sure if I would be getting any tangible improvement though (with a low-end amp such as the Key 200.4 that I have)

 

[Dadsquatch]

Two questions:

1.) Which 4 wires on the Plug N Play harness just before it enters the Kicker Key 200.4 do I need to tap into for left/right signal to a powered sub?
2.) For a 15A powered sub (JBL BassPro Nano), can I power that from one of the 15A AUX switch wires, or do I need to run power straight to the battery? Just trying to make it a bit easier and cleaner with one of my unused AUX switches.

Thank You

 

[dangerfoot]

Two questions:

1.) Which 4 wires on the Plug N Play harness just before it enters the Kicker Key 200.4 do I need to tap into for left/right signal to a powered sub?
2.) For a 15A powered sub (JBL BassPro Nano), can I power that from one of the 15A AUX switch wires, or do I need to run power straight to the battery? Just trying to make it a bit easier and cleaner with one of my unused AUX switches.

Thank You

1. Contact PnP and see if he can guide you there.

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