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mpeugeot

mpeugeot

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His vehicle is out of the warranty period. Warranties don’t last forever.
How? Mileage? Surely not years.
Yes, mileage. I think he mentioned it's a little over 36k
Well, it's been a minute, so now I have 43,000 miles on it (42,800+). I have had the vehicle for 11 months. Overall, I am actually rather happy with it.

Today, I am hoping to finish up the hidden winch mount (another reason to deny all warranty claims).
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Mattwings

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Because I still had to drive it to work 365 miles away. What would you have done?

It was Sunday evening, I had to report for duty Monday at 0730, and the top was cracked.

Maybe you would have just tightened it without any regard to the specifications and given Ford another reason to deny the warranty.

I used a torque wrench so that Ford could not use that as a reason to deny my warranty.

Strange as it may seem, I use a torque wrench on most of the bolts on my vehicles. I will concede, the license plate isn't torque to spec, the shorty radio antenna, and the hood struts weren't either; but all the suspension bolts, wheel lugs, and anything else that needs to not fall off are torqued to spec. I even purchased a 3/4" torque wrench to get the 221 ft/lbs of torque needed for the axle shafts and the 350 ft/lbs of torque needed for replacing the rear shocks.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Why is it hard to understand that by your logic, the crack happened before you tightened it down? Then why would the toque spec matter? I am sure your relating the incident as your recount it, but it would be difficult to understand how this happened and how it would be considered warranty? I had a 5G Bronco (that's reason one why I have zero interest in removing my rear top and an 06 LJ with dual tops, reason two I have no desire to remove my rear hardtop). I have also experienced removed Dodge Ramcharger and 4G Bronco Hardtops. In most every case, even with careful use of pulleys and ropes (I had a full garage lift set up for my LJ) it was very easy to ding, crack or misalign the top, causing potential issues like you illustrate. Yours cracking, with no outside influence, it's just hard to get my mind around. Particularly when it's looks as if the gap between the outer edge of the top "flange" and the mating surface has a gap that appears consistent with the crack in the top. Regardless of proper torque spec, if there is a reduce or misaligned mating surface, the top could crack. I understand most of the forums are filled with rants and raves, I am not trying to be difficult, just passing along my observations, experience and obviously opinion. I sincerely hope you find a good solution.
 

Soundwave

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This would have probably been covered under your 3/36 manufacturer warranty. Why even mention your ESP? I haven't read every post by have you ever taken it to a dealer or are you just assuming? It sounds like it's too late now because of your mileage but you should have brought it to dealer and started claim before 36k miles.
 

JohnnyBronco

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This would have probably been covered under your 3/36 manufacturer warranty. Why even mention your ESP? I haven't read every post by have you ever taken it to a dealer or are you just assuming? It sounds like it's too late now because of your mileage but you should have brought it to dealer and started claim before 36k miles.
Because he was so close to 36k mileage warranty which ends when the odometer reads 36000.1 no ifs ands or buts. And would have been over when he got vehicle to the dealer. And denied as I suggested because it is not a moving part of the powertrain. You might think an ESP covers everything same as factory just extended but that is rarely the case. YOu get a better "certified pre-owned" warranty than new when buying a used certified vehicle. Most times an additional 2 or 3 years and coverage to 100,000 miles
 
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Why is it hard to understand that by your logic, the crack happened before you tightened it down?
Yes

Then why would the toque spec matter?
Because that's the first thing that someone would suspect happened without video tape. I remember looking at it and lamenting that I didn't film this... because it looks like someone over torqued it and cracked it. That is not the case and it really doesn't matter whether or not you believe it.

I am sure your relating the incident as your recount it, but it would be difficult to understand how this happened and how it would be considered warranty?
So you don't understand what a material defect is?

Yours cracking, with no outside influence, it's just hard to get my mind around. Particularly when it's looks as if the gap between the outer edge of the top "flange" and the mating surface has a gap that appears consistent with the crack in the top.
No gap there, nothing was placed underneath it, it was structurally weak to begin with an the pin caused the stress fracture to finally give way when I rested the top on the 4 pins (still on top of the Bronco).

Regardless of proper torque spec, if there is a reduce or misaligned mating surface, the top could crack. I understand most of the forums are filled with rants and raves, I am not trying to be difficult, just passing along my observations, experience and obviously opinion. I sincerely hope you find a good solution.
Ya, I understand where you are coming from... and believe me, a lot of people post half the story not to look bad. I have made plenty of mistakes, but I tell the whole story (just like I did when I replaced the suspension). I even am willing to concede that without having been there, I would not have believed that it would fail like it did.

People need to be aware that this can happen and need to ditch those alignment pins, otherwise they are possibly going to experience this problem as well. It sucks for me, but it doesn't have to suck for anyone else.
 

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This would have probably been covered under your 3/36 manufacturer warranty. Why even mention your ESP? I haven't read every post by have you ever taken it to a dealer or are you just assuming? It sounds like it's too late now because of your mileage but you should have brought it to dealer and started claim before 36k miles.
FFS - This was the first time I have taken this Bronco to the dealer.

As I noted above, the dealer wasn't open Sunday night and I had to be at work Monday morning. The 365 mile drive put me over 36k miles.

It doesn't matter at this point, I have 43k miles now.
 

Ksjrb03

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I take my top off all the time and just set it down on the driveway or garage floor on the guide pins. More proof not all Broncos (and tops) are built equally. Mines an absolute piece of shit, so I'm surprised it hasn't cracked like this. I like the tip of removing the guide pins, I'll be doing that next time I remove the top.
 

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Sorry to see this. I can't really reply other than that as I have absolutely no idea what happened from the description presented. It's very confusing.
I feel like bronco owners are going to become super familiar with their local fiberglass repair place. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
 

indio22

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No it cracked before I even put the weather stripping on the the vehicle. I lifted the top up, moved it 2 to 3 inches rearward and it cracked as I set it back down. Stop making up "facts" that have nothing to do with the failure. Next you are going to suggest that I used the wrong wax...

The weather stripping by the way was all the way in the front along the B pillars, which in no way could have caused the crack.
First of all, 43,000 miles in only 11 months, you are a road warrior! :)

The hardtop issue makes more sense after reading the further details. Apparently the weight of the hardtop resting on the locating pins (which after having been moved back a few inches were no longer lined up with the body holes), resulted in failure. Specifically - the flange was not strong enough to handle the concentrated weight pressure at the pin area. Is that basically what happened?

A removable hardtop can be removed (obviously), and should be designed with that in mind, to avoid issues in a reasonable manner. Having removed Jeep hardtops more times that I can count, the top is not always at first aligned perfectly. Not through negligence, but it's just not always going to be absolutely perfect the first time set down on the body. In that case, having the area around the pins not capable of reasonably handling the weight, is a fail imho of the design. Bad design.

I don't blame the OP, as I have occasionally set my Jeep hardtop back a few inches exactly like he did, when working on the windshield or some other area. No issue. But my top has no guide pins. I agree with what some others have advised - remove those Bronco guide pins! (Although then if there is some issue, some apologist will claim it's user fault, for removing the guide pins, lol.)
 

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not to self and others remove guide pins.
More like never remove the top under any circumstances...I was already planning on never removing doors so I guess I'll add the hardtop to the list as well.

I've mentioned here before and I will again that I have a feeling Ford will be replacing our MIC 2.0 tops within the next year or two. We've seen too many issues here with further delamination and just falling apart for these things to last that long.

The first aftermarket company that builds a decent hardtop and doesnt want a kidney for them will be swimming in dollars.

I also wonder if machining a thin strip of metal to go over this obvious weakpoint would help?
 

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Sorry this happened, but I agree with the other posters that an extended warranty doesn't cover everything. I would have thought that the 36k warranty would cover this, but I am not sure I have all the facts.

That being said, you put on about 36k miles in less than a year? Damn - well done, my friend.
 

Ducati1098

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This would have probably been covered under your 3/36 manufacturer warranty. Why even mention your ESP? I haven't read every post by have you ever taken it to a dealer or are you just assuming? It sounds like it's too late now because of your mileage but you should have brought it to dealer and started claim before 36k miles.
Factory 3/36 warranty also would have denied this. Ford released a GSB (General service bulletin) recently that shows multiple pictures and examples of top failures. Cracks like this are considered non-warrantable.
 

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Amazing folks can't accept a failure of the top due to a defect in the material. Given that it is a composite construction, a void or other defect internal to the material could cause a crack in an area that from the outside looks fine. The fact that the crack started halfway between bolt holes and propagated out would point to an internal defect barring any external factors that you've addressed.

Good luck with any good will help from Ford. I hope you get it but I doubt you're holding your breath. You did everything you could do. Oh and you have to be the mileage king around here.
 
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More like never remove the top under any circumstances...I was already planning on never removing doors so I guess I'll add the hardtop to the list as well.

I've mentioned here before and I will again that I have a feeling Ford will be replacing our MIC 2.0 tops within the next year or two. We've seen too many issues here with further delamination and just falling apart for these things to last that long.

The first aftermarket company that builds a decent hardtop and doesnt want a kidney for them will be swimming in dollars.

I also wonder if machining a thin strip of metal to go over this obvious weakpoint would help?
I definitely feel that an aluminum plate bonded across the top of the sill would look great and strengthen it significantly. I am thinking about doing this as part of the repair. I have several 8'x6"x0.25" aluminum plates (yes, 8 foot long) that I could easily use, but 0.25" aluminum is overkill and I don't have any 0.125" lying around.
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