Oceanfabreze

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I learned a ton about IFS and Ryan from 4WP, in both his video(s) and his conversations here, really opened my eyes to some things.

I come from the jeep side where a "budget lift" is a regular and appropriate things.... with a budget lift you basically just put some spacers on top of the suspension to give you some quick increased clearance for larger tires.

The problem is that with an IFS, when you add lift in that way, without taking other things into account, you reach the limits of the front axles and CV joint angles.

The weird thing is that you can "safely" budget lift the lower trims but not the upper trims...

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Ryan was able to shed some light on something that didn't make intuitive sense to me at first but it an important point:

On the Base-OB the shocks themselves don't have a very large range of motion. On the yellow bilsteins (BL and Sas), the travel is so much greater and you're already lifted, that they basically already allow for near maximum droop as far as the CVs are concerned.

What that means is that counterintuitively, it's easier to "cheaply" lift a lower trim Bronco than an upper trim....

The lower trim shocks don't allow the wheels to drop enough to create a problem if you add some spacers to raise the vehicle, so you can get a base up to squatch height pretty easy with a budget boost. On the upper trims if you add more lift with spacers the wheels can drop so far that you bind the axles and can create serious problems.

Ryan's point was that if you want to eventually get to a 3" lift for 37s... even if it's only a small increase over your BL or Sas height, you're already at the end of the CV capability. Starting with Sas doesn't mean you get to save money by just adding cheap spacers for the 37" clearance, you have to swap out coilovers and UCA anyway... So, if your plan is 37s, it may make more sense to *not* sas from the factory since you're going to have to replace those components anyway.

Granted, the Bilsteins, with their longer range of travel mean better articulation off road, but if your goal is to just lift your Bronco fast and cheap, it could potentially make more sense to go with a lower trim and add spacers.

(Of course, if you want to lift your BL or Sas, and aren't worried about damage that may occur if you were to hang one of your front wheels in the air... a spacer may be worth it to you... or if you're worried about damage but don't mind limiting droop, you could put limiter straps in or something... I'm sure we'll see plenty of different solutions once Broncos become more prolific.)

The more I think about this more clear (I think) things become to me.

Basically, here's the breakdown as I see it:

- If all you want is lift to clear 35" on the street, it's almost certainly cheaper to get a Base-OB and add a budget boost.
- If you want maximum off-road capability for 33-35" it's probably cheaper to Sas.
- If you want maximum off-road capability for 37" it's cheaper to go base and upgrade coilovers and UCA.


And here's the link to the video where Ryan very quickly talks about how a "level lift" (budget boost / spacer) wont work because of CV angles on the "Yellow Bilstein" (BL, SAS) equipped Broncos:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...-37”-tires-on-2021-bronco-4wp-explains.16623/
So lets say I have a stock 4 Dr, MT Black Diamond. If I didnt want to buy spacers, and wanted to run 35” tires my best option would be to buy Sasquatch Coilovers? And if so, what else would I need if I wanted to run +35 or +25mm offset wheels?

I know that’s a loaded question, I’m just a little green in this area haha. All help is greatly appreciated!


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BAUS67

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You have got it correct.

The Bilstein (yellow/squatch/badlands) shocks will easily be enough for 35's.

They will lift alittle over an inch. Maybe inch and quarter.
 
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North7

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So lets say I have a stock 4 Dr, MT Black Diamond. If I didnt want to buy spacers, and wanted to run 35” tires my best option would be to buy Sasquatch Coilovers? And if so, what else would I need if I wanted to run +35 or +25mm offset wheels?

I know that’s a loaded question, I’m just a little green in this area haha. All help is greatly appreciated!
There are a number of great threads discussing this, here are a few.

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/will-factory-35-tires-fit-my-black-diamond-rims.38475/

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/35s-on-non-sasquatch-badlands.28219/
 

DrewBronc21

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Maybe I’m not reading this correctly but how do I know what letter to add to end of p/n for which trim springs?

FB7AB059-1A6F-483E-9881-42B8525E1ACE.jpeg
 
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North7

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DrewBronc21

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Thanks but where does it tell you which of the 11 front springs and 6 rear spring letter designations are for which trim/engine/door count? Forgive me if I’m missing it. The shocks seem pretty straight forward but looking to buy either sas takeoffs or new sas suspension for 2Dr 7mt Bdlands
 
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North7

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Thanks but where does it tell you which of the 11 front springs and 6 rear spring letter designations are for which trim/engine/door count? Forgive me if I’m missing it. The shocks seem pretty straight forward but looking to buy either sas takeoffs or new sas suspension for 2Dr 7mt Bdlands
That is all of the data I have, @flip maybe able to help out.
 

flip

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I do not have a list of spring codes by model. There are a ton of different combos depending on the model and options. I think I've got most of the combos mapped for BL and SAS suspensions.

The list was posted with the service part number as well as the engineering number. If you look at the tag on your spring the letter should match up with the last letter of the engineering number. Good chance a chassis engineer at Ford has a spring rate chart for each number or fitment guide.
 

ChompSticks

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Well
2 door Black Diamond 7MT non SAS has part number lettering ATB
4 door Black Diamond 7MT non SAS has AHE

Keep it going and we can find the stock shock and springs numbers as well.
 

Gtrekker

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We can finally answer the ongoing Bronco question, "how much lift" does each trim level have compared to the others?

Now that we have the Ford General Specifications document, Bilstein Coilover Information and Ford Part Number information we can finally get a clear and complete picture on what the stock Bronco lift dimensions are and what is possible to lift each trim level. In this discussion the goal is always to maintain maximum functionality of your Bronco for off-road use. If you want to do something for looks only, you may be able to bend the rules a little and do a budget lift, but you want to be cautious of tire rub, binding, CV joints and steering component damage or other unintended consequences.

Vaughn Gittin Jr. or Loren Healey (both Bronco racers) said something to the effect, to put 37" tires on the Sasquatch you need to go up 2 inches and out 2 inches. Going out 2 inches most likely will require new control arms. On the other hand, Ryan of 4WP, only recommended new control arms when doing a lift 3 inches or higher. Further, he prefers a +35 wheel offset to maintain the ideal scrub radius to minimize wear on components. While this thread cannot possibly address every variable, these are general guidelines that each manufacture will handle differently, depending on the lift kits they offer.

Each of the below tables can be read separately to understand the information or points made within that table. Some data is repeated in other tables to provide clarity or present the information in a different way to make it understandable to the most number of people. This thread is intended to help newbies and experienced alike, with those more knowledgeable forum members helping others learn the ropes of suspension modifications and lift. Please post any corrections or clarifications you feel are needed.

Thank you to @ZackDanger, @Razorbak86 for their knowledge shared and for some of our unnamed friends of the forum.

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Update 12/28/2021: Thank you to @Jason hamilton for posting what appears to be the first vendor Bronco suspension info page along with available coilovers. Much of the information appears to be similar, if not identical, to my information above, perhaps another case of Bronco6g being use for source material. :unsure:
2021+ Ford Bronco Suspension & Shock Guide

Sasquatch vs Badlands Articulation (Update 1/2/2022)
While the Bilstein coilover's are 0.43" taller on the Sasquatch vs the Badlands, they also have a 0.4" Bump stop vs the Badlands, limiting articulation, so the larger 35" tires don't top out on the fender well. Therefore, Sasquatch with 35" tires has Less articulation, not more.
The yellow arrow points to the Sasquatch Bump Stop.
Ford Bronco Suspension Deep Dive | 35-inch reasons to avoid Sasquatch
3_fr_uarm_arrow.jpg
Thank you for posting, very interesting... Saving to my folder.
 

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MoabRox

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Sasquatch vs Badlands Articulation (Update 1/2/2022)
While the Bilstein coilover's are 0.43" taller on the Sasquatch vs the Badlands, they also have a 0.4" Bump stop vs the Badlands, limiting articulation, so the larger 35" tires don't top out on the fender well. Therefore, Sasquatch with 35" tires has Less articulation, not more.
The yellow arrow points to the Sasquatch Bump Stop.
Ford Bronco Suspension Deep Dive | 35-inch reasons to avoid Sasquatch
3_fr_uarm_arrow-jpg.jpg


Is anyone running the sasquatch shocks without the additional 0.4" bump stop described and shown above? Any problems with the shocks bottoming out internally? I know they're there so 35" tires don't rub, but I'm running 33" tires so I'm not concerned about rubbing.
 
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North7

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Sasquatch vs Badlands Articulation (Update 1/2/2022)
While the Bilstein coilover's are 0.43" taller on the Sasquatch vs the Badlands, they also have a 0.4" Bump stop vs the Badlands, limiting articulation, so the larger 35" tires don't top out on the fender well. Therefore, Sasquatch with 35" tires has Less articulation, not more.
The yellow arrow points to the Sasquatch Bump Stop.
Ford Bronco Suspension Deep Dive | 35-inch reasons to avoid Sasquatch
3_fr_uarm_arrow-jpg.jpg


Is anyone running the sasquatch shocks without the additional 0.4" bump stop described and shown above? Any problems with the shocks bottoming out internally? I know they're there so 35" tires don't rub, but I'm running 33" tires so I'm not concerned about rubbing.
Here you go.

Cut Sasquatch bump stops for 2”+ additional wheel travel and shock length -- pics
 

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This is not right though. Plenty of people have documented that they've been able to run 35's on a stock Big Bend, just with removing the crash bars. So why does this chart say a 1.1" lift is required? Is it not taking into account the removal of crash bars? Or zero/negative offset wheels? Not sure but either way it's incorrect.
 

skhubbard93

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So why does this chart say a 1.1" lift is required?
It's so that when you hit a bump and the shocks are fully-compressed by it, your tires won't hit the car.

T&C has a video showing them driving around on 37s with only crash bars removed. But the car can barely turn, and if you hit anything larger than a pebble your tires might impact.
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